Yes, to doing things differently.
Yes, to more evocative, emotionally resonant art.
Yes, to dissolving boundaries.
(Background sound from Jubilee Queen Cruise Ship in podcast)
When I got an invitation from Jana Macalik, Director of the Global Centre for Climate Action at OCAD University to participate on a panel about art and climate - one of my passions - I was excited and honoured to accept.
This panel was part of an event called Dissolving Boundaries that took place on October 4, 2025, as part of Nuit Blanche Toronto, which of course went on all night. It featured the premiere of a large scale, beautiful large-scale art projection by Alessandro Gisendi and Marco Noviello of the OOOPStudio in Italy. Their work was projected onto the massive Canada Malting Silos on the shores of Lake Ontario in Tkaronto.
Dissolving Boundaries was co-presented by the Global Centre for Climate Action at OCAD University and the European Union (EU), through its Delegation to Canada. I want to thank them for their hospitality and congratulate them their vision in collaborating, partnering and bringing this work and this conversation to us.
The timing was good for me. I was wrapping up season 6 of my conscient podcast / balado conscient after some 350 episodes since I started it in 2020 and I was about to take a break, but then I got a call to talk about how arts and culture can help move audiences from awareness to action and I could not refuse that. I felt good about speaking freely and really listening to the different points of view.
We were on a ship called the Jubilee Queen Cruise Ship so it quite moving, literally, to be on a boat looking out onto the projection and talking about art, culture and climate.
Here’s Ana Serrano, OCAD University’s President and Vice-Chancellor explaining what the event was about:
First you’ll hear Ana Serrano shares some inspiring opening remarks, followed by an engaging speech by the Ambassador of the EU to Canada, Geneviève Tuts. You’ll then hear panelists, with Ana as facilitator, speak one by one. First Alessandro Gisendi, Akash Rastogi (Chief Capital Strategy Officer at Canada’s Ocean Supercluster) myself, Juan Erazo (Culturans) and Alice Xu (Director of Policy, Planning and Program Enablement; Environment, Climate and Forestry Division at the City of Toronto).
At the end of the recording you’ll hear a question from an audience member, who happens to be a friend of mine, Coman Poon (e202 coman poon - what are you doing with your life ?) ask about ‘extraction for the sake of economic autonomy’, which we all commented upon. The conversation continued until it was time to view the art projection!
I want to express my warmest thanks to the organizers, fellow panelists, audience members and in particular to OCAD sound technician Omar Qureshi, who recorded this session for me.
Enjoy. It’s good to talk about these things with creative energy.
May the conversations continue.
*
Episodes notes generated by Whisper Transcribe AI
Key Takeaways:
Story Preview
In a world grappling with urgent climate pressures, this episode reveals how art can ignite powerful emotions, transforming passive observers into active contributors. Hear how artists, scientists, and policymakers converge to create evocative experiences that inspire hope and drive tangible solutions for a sustainable future.
Chapter Summary
00:00 Art’s Transformative Power in Climate Action
05:42 OCAD U’s Vision for Climate Action
12:55 EU’s Commitment to Sustainable Future
18:11 Dissolving Boundaries: Art Installation
23:02 Oceans, Innovation, and Emotional Triggers
27:44 Art as a Tool for Community Creativity
33:14 Nature-Based Solutions and Urban Greenery
37:26 Reconnecting with Nature
39:55 Cross-Sectoral Collaboration for Future Cities
42:44 International Cooperation for Ocean Climate Solutions
45:26 Art’s Role in Changing Habits
47:40 Building Connections for Climate Action
49:16 Addressing Societal Values and Economic Flaws
52:05 Indigenous Wisdom and Future Paths
53:41 Closing Remarks and Art Installation Details
Featured Quotes
Behind the Story
This panel discussion, “Dissolving Boundaries,” was recorded on October 4, 2025 on the Jubilee Queen cruise ship during Nuit Blanche Toronto. It featured the premiere of a large-scale art projection by Alessandro Gisendi and Marco Noviello of Oops Studio, projected onto the Canada Malting Silos. Co-presented by OCAD University’s Global Center for Climate Action and the European Union, the event brought together diverse art and climate experts to explore the role of art and collaboration in addressing climate change.
Transcription
Note: This is an automated transcription that is provided for those who prefer to read this conversation and for documentation. It has been verified but is not 100% accurate (some names might not be quite right). Please contact me if you would like to quote from this transcript: claude@conscient.ca
[00:00:00] Geneviève Tuts
So in an era where pressures on climate and environments grow even stronger, we should not underestimate the transformative power of art.
[00:00:13] Akash Rastogi
And when you do the trigger, the emotional part, you can go down hope and fear both, both lead to action, but ultimately, we need to transform being passive into really active contributors to solving this. And what a better way than art?
[00:00:27] Juan Erazo
We want to activate the creativity of communities through the arts to create the cities of the future, basically, right? The cities that we want to live in.
[00:00:38] Claude Schryer
Change happens. There's always going to be ways to adapt. That's not to say that the initial change might not be catastrophic, but there was always going to be something left, and you have to work with that. Now, it breaks my heart to hear that, because for a young person to say that means that they don't anticipate there won't be a lot left. And yet.
[00:00:57] Claude Schryer
Episode 242.
[00:01:00] Claude Schryer
We know that when we work with green spaces, we work with life, we work with art, we can rebuild, we can regenerate, but we have to do it differently.
[00:01:09] Claude Schryer
Yes, to do things differently. Yes, to more evocative, emotionally resonant art. Yes, to dissolving boundaries. When I got an invitation from Jana Macalik, the director of the Global Center for Climate Action at OCAD University. To participate on a panel about art and climate - one of my passions - I was excited and honored to accept. So this panel was part of an event called Dissolving Boundaries that took place on October 4th, 2025, as part of Nuit Blanche Toronto, which of course went on all night. It featured the premiere of a very large-scale, beautiful video work by Alessandro Gessi and Marco Noviello of the Ooops Studio in Italy.
Their work was projected onto the massive Canada Malting silos on the shores of Lake Ontario in Toronto. The event was co-presented by the Global Center for Climate Action at OCAD University and the European Union through its delegation to Canada. Canada. And I want to thank them both for their hospitality and I want to congratulate them for their vision on collaborating, partnering and bringing this work and this conversation to us.
And the timing was good for me. I was wrapping up season six of my podcast after some 350 episodes since I started it in 2020 and I was about to take a break. But then I got a call to talk about how arts and culture can help move audiences from awareness to action.
So I could not refuse that. And I felt really good about speaking freely and really listening to the different points of view. And we were on a ship called the Jubilee Queen cruise ship. So it was quite moving to literally to be on a boat looking out on the projection and talking about art culture and climate. Here's Ana Serrano, who's the OCAD University's president and vice chancellor, explaining what the event was about:
[00:03:45] Ana Serrano
We can't stop, really. We don't really have much of a choice. So convening like this, trying to figure out ways to create evocative, emotionally resonant works that will catalyze people into thinking about their relationship with the land, with water, with climate, and their daily actions is what tonight is all about.
[00:04:12] Claude Schryer
So you're about to hear Ana Serrano give her opening remarks, followed by a speech by the Ambassador to the European Union to Canada, Geneviève Tuts. And then you'll hear the panelists with Anna as facilitator speak one by one. First, Alessandro Gesand, followed by Akash Rastogi, then myself, Juan Erazo, and finally Alice Xu. At the end you'll also hear an audience member who happens to be a friend of mine, Coman Poon, ask a question about extraction for the sake of economic autonomy. And we all commented upon this question, and the conversation continued until it was time to view the video. So I want to express my warmest thanks to the organizers, fellow panelists, audience members, and in particular to OCAD sound technician Omar Qureshi who recorded this session for me.
And please don't worry if this is too much information, you can read a transcript of the conversation on the episode notes and also I've included links to the individuals and organizations that have been mentioned so that if you want if you want to connect with them, you can do it that way. So I hope you have a good time listening to this. There's lots of good creative energy here. May the conversations continue.
[00:05:47] Ana Serrano
Welcome all. This is probably the first time we're starting things early, but that's because we have a hard stop at 7:23 so that we can announce that the wonderful piece will be illuminating the malting silos at 7:30. So I have to keep track of time very, very carefully. So for those of you who don't know me, my name is Ana Serrano and I'm President and Vice Chancellor of OCAD University. And welcome to an exciting evening of art and conversation as part of this year's Nuit Blanche produced by the City of Toronto. This annual celebration of contemporary art is an opportunity to be inspired, to experience creativity in action, and to to be moved by the many, many artworks throughout the city, such as the one that will be unveiled tonight. As president of OCAD University, it's my part of my remit to actually tell people what that is, because we have quite a number of folks here from around the world who are not only our partners for this event, but partners in other endeavors.
And for those of you who are participating in an OCAD University event for the first time, you should know that OCAD University is Canada's largest and oldest art and design media university, and we will be celebrating our 150th year next year. So before we begin, as we do here in Canada, I would like to acknowledge that Toronto's Lake Ontario waterfront is on the traditional territories of the Mississauga’s of the Credit, the Haudenosaunee, the Anishinaabeg and the Huron-Wendat, who are the owners and custodians of the land upon which we are creating and living. We also honor First Nations, Inuit and Métis presence and stewardship and Gitchi Gami as living water. We offer our gratitude to First Peoples for their care for and teachings about our Earth and our relations. And we commit to respectful relations upholding Indigenous sovereignty and advancing truth, reconciliation and justice. May we honor those teachings. Tonight's panel conversation and large-scale projection of dissolving boundaries on the Canada malting silos is a collaboration between the European Union through its delegation to Canada and the university's Global Centre for Climate Action.
And I want to call out here the director of this Global Centre of Climate Action, Jana Macalik. Say hello. For those of you unfamiliar with the Global Centre for Climate Action, this is a research creation hub that brings artists, designers, and researchers together from around the world to do research first and foremost, but also adjacent to the research work that we do, we do on occasion host public events, exhibitions, and programs that engage people in creative action and dialogue towards a renewed climate future. As a vital cultural hub in the city and a global institution, OCAD University recognizes and values partnerships such as the one we have with the European Union.
So we're delighted to join with them for the second year during Nuit Blanche. Because this is such the hot ticket for Nuit Blanche, Ambassador, you must know that there are a ton of VIP in this room, including our own Member of Parliament, Chi Thuy Diem Nguyen, who's in the back. Chinatown is MP for Spadina Harbourfront and that stretches from Queen Street all the way down here and we're actually thrilled to have her be part of our community here.
I believe Chris Glover is also in the house. Oh, there he is. Yes. And he's our member of provincial parliament for Spadina Fort York. And he will peek his head in any moment now. Along with our incredible public servants, we have a number of distinguished guests, ambassadors, consul generals, city councillors, executive directors, and senior leaders from arts and culture organizations. We have a very new consul General here with us tonight from the Philippines. So welcome.
She's to only two weeks old, so everyone be nice to her. So, as you will see tonight, dissolving boundaries is a stunning, large-scale cinematic projection co-created by Alessandro Gresendi and Marco Noviello. Alessandro and Marco, where are you? There you are. From the OOOPs studio in Italy, responding to Nuit Blanche's curatorial framework Poetic Justice, the piece envisions a renewed relationship with water based on reciprocity, reverence, and care. This wonderful work will transform the Canada Malting Silos into a moving canvas of light, dance, and water, featuring dancer Ivana Mastroviti. We have assembled an esteemed panel whose members will engage in a conversation on how projection mapping and sound installations such as dissolving boundaries can communicate the sense of urgency surrounding climate change in a very accessible and moving way.
This conversation reflects the deep commitment that both OCAD U and the European Union have to climate action, to water stewardship, and hence that's why we decided to all decide to be seasick on this boat together. From waterfront projection mapping to sound-based ecologies and community-rooted installations, our speakers will explore how immersive works can act as portals connecting people to place, to each other, and to the pressing need for ecological repair, although for some of us it's way beyond repair and really it's about adaptability and resilience. They'll reflect on how creative interventions can shift climate consciousness and help build more resilient relational futures. All of that that I've just said is impossible if you don't have the right partners who understand the values and the kinds of concerns that you are, we all are at OCAD U is engaged in. And we are have never been so lucky as to have a partner like this in the European Union. It gives me great pleasure to introduce Her Excellency, the Ambassador of the European Union to Canada, Geneviève Tuts, who will deliver opening remarks.
[00:12:56] Geneviève Tuts
Good evening, everyone. What a pleasure to be here. What a nice evening. Merci, belle soirée, merci, belle soirée, c'est un plaisir, c'est un moment. It's a real pleasure, a true pleasure and an honor for me, but for the European Union to partner again.
And now you mentioned it with OCAD University. This second collaboration reflects our shared values, cultural exchanges, and commitment to positive global challenges. I also express my gratitude to the City of Toronto for organizing Nuit Blanche for 19 years. Impressive! And this event not only highlights Toronto's vibrant art scene that also fosters cultural exchange and collaboration. Tonight, we come together to celebrate Nuy Blanche for featuring the Italian artist duo Ooops Studio with their artwork Dissolving Boundaries. They explore water, climate, and boundary erosion in a very poetic way.
So in an era where pressures on climate and environments grow even stronger, we should not underestimate the transformative power of art. Art tells what is unseen into what we can touch, what we fear into what we can face. It gives shape to climate change, water, loss, boundary, dissolutions. But art can also bring hope, imaginative worlds, renewed harmony and love is repaired with nature. This evening panel with artists and experts including some of you involved in European initiatives will help us to dive into these themes. We will explore how policy, creativity, science and practice can connect for a more sustainable future. This summer, the European Commission has adopted the European Ocean Pact, which aims to protect marine life, restore habitats, but also advance ocean research and promote sustainable innovation.
The EU has also initiated a new water resilience strategy. It will restore and protect water cycles, ensure clean and affordable water for all, and promote the circular water industry. This initiative, of course, comes ahead of the 2023 UN Water Conference. As you may know, Canada and the EU are closer than ever. Canada and the EU are partners under the Green Alliance that address water, climate, biodiversity and innovation. And this partnership strengthens our shared responsibility and capacity for action. I'm so proud to be as representative of the EU in Canada these days.
The EU is firmly committed to addressing climate change challenges and we recognize that government alone cannot win the fight. We need collaboration across all sectors, including the arts.
Art opens pathways. It connects science to imagination, policy to feeling, and urgency to compassion. So through connections, dialogues, blending of ideas, we build bridges across continents, across disciplines, across people. So before we move on to our panel, I wish to thank, of course, the artist Alessandro Grisendi, and Marco Noviello. Thank you very much and congratulations as well. I want to thank OCAD University and its Global Center for Climate Action team, Ava, Production, Future Talks and all others whose hard work made this even possible. Thank you to all who are with us this evening.
The EU Member State representatives, City of Toronto officials, members of the Ontario government and Legislative Assembly, as well as the many experts and artists from diverse sectors. I wish everyone a wonderful and inspiring evening. Thank you very much.
[00:18:11] Ana Serrano
Thank you very much, Madame Ambassador. And now we have the pleasure of hearing a number of esteemed guests to talk about the themes that have been articulated by Ambassador Toots and myself. I'm pleased to introduce our panel members, starting with the artists and co-creators of Dissolving Boundaries, Alessandro Grisendi from the OOOps Studio in Italy, who will talk about the artistic process and intention behind his work. Next, we have Alice Xu from the City of Toronto. She is the Director of Policy, Planning and Program Enablement, Environment, Climate and Forestry Division. We all, yes, thank you. We also have Akash Rastogi, who is an ocean innovation strategist from Ocean Supercluster.
Akash, where are you? He's making his way here. And welcome to Claude Schryer, who is a composer, activist, and podcast producer in Canada who's been speaking with a number of artists about climate and art. And finally, we are pleased to welcome Juan Eraso from Culturans, one of our Mexico EU partners. Okay, so each panelist will have approximately three minutes to respond to each question. As I told them earlier, and I told you at 7:23, I don't care who's talking, but I'm going to cut them off. And then we'll make our way to make sure we see the artwork.
So to set the stage, let's begin with Alessandro from Studio Ooops. Your work dissolving boundaries will transform the waterfront into a site for projection and sound. How do you see large scale immersive public art helping people feel the urgency of climate change in ways that facts and data alone can't?
[00:20:25] Alessandro Gisendi
Thank you very much for being here. And we are very glad to present our project here in Toronto. When we start thinking about this project. We thought how images and sound can explain or can create emotion. This is important on a team, this important as climate changes. And our answer was to create a story, a story that tells how human beings and natural elements are deeply connected and theelement we chose was water because we are made of water, almost 60%, because water is what drives climate and Historically, water decided where human community set and became a community. So we decided to transform this building in a surface that reacts to motion. And through dance, we collaborated with a ballerina, with a dancer. Through dance, we created a human body that generates water and the waves that it creates expand over the surface of this building. And it's almost like we create a living building. Was important to create a memory, a common memory, a community memory, because at the end of the video, I don't want to spoil the video, but just to explain, just to explain, the water grows so strong that it solves all the boundaries of the architecture of the building. And create this new space. And this space for us is a community, a community memory that helps people to remember how important is act on these themes.
[00:23:03] Ana Serrano
So Akash, presumably as one of the folks in the Ocean Supercluster, you don't think of water as community. Or you don't conceive of it, or maybe you do, you know, how has your work with Ocean Supercluster approach water as a resource inside of innovation? And what do you think of partnering with artists and acting on climate features associated with the kind of things that artists can do, including what Alessandra just shared with us?
[00:23:36] Akash Rastogi
Yeah, sure. By the way, if the mic, I tend to speak with my hands, so the microphone goes away from my mouth, He just yelled at me. So I'm absolutely excited to be here. I'm the token business guy on the panel, so apologies for that. But oceans and water, of course, is one thing. And our entire work Ocean Supercluster does is connected with the oceans.
[00:24:02] Ana Serrano
Actually, can you just tell us what the hell is an Ocean Supercluster?
[00:24:05] Akash Rastogi
I'd love to. So that's... No, it's a fair question. It was kind of relatively new. Ocean Supercluster is Canada's national industry cluster focused on growing the ocean sector. It was set up about seven years ago, 2018. We actually one of the largest ocean clusters in the world now with around 1000 companies that are members of it.
And that goes from small to medium to large enterprises in the ocean economy. And since our inception, we have co-funded about half a billion dollars to projects that has led to 300, more than 300 made in Canada products and services that's being used by not only the Canadian ocean sector, but also globally. And of course, international partnerships are critical part of that. And we have partners in Europe, Forum Oceano in Portugal and the EU coalition for Blue Energy, our official partners of Ocean Stewardship.
[00:25:03] Ana Serrano
Just to be clear, the products and services that have been developed are sustainable products and services?
[00:25:09] Akash Rastogi
Yeah, actually. So going into the theme for today, which is climate, it's one of our core priorities, one of our four strategic priorities. And just to give, again, I don't know how many people know, I didn't know about myself before I got into the, I spent my entire career in banking, but oceans play a central role in regulating our climate. It doesn't matter where you live, it doesn't have to be coastal. You can be living in Alberta or you can a landlocked city anywhere else in the world, the climate you experience is being regulated by the ocean. And, ocean actually just naturally absorb, I'll just throw some numbers for context in terms of how critically important it is. It's absorbed close to 90% of excess heat that human activity produces, around 30% of carbon that human emissions produce. If it wasn't for the oceans, the planet would be a much harsher environment to live in.
[00:26:02] Ana Serrano
Right?
[00:26:03] Akash Rastogi
Now, of course, oceans have we pay the price for it. We have ocean acidification, we are losing marine habitats and so on. But it's also part of the solution. There are a lot of novel solutions being designed and developed and tested that not only help reduce emissions but also helps remove carbon from the atmosphere.
[00:26:21] Ana Serrano
And how many artists does the Ocean Supercluster have in its roster?
[00:26:26] Akash Rastogi
I can come back to you, but my guess would be zero.
[00:26:30] Ana Serrano
See what's happening here?
[00:26:33] Akash Rastogi
That's why super excited about the option to actually open. It's like I've been in the ocean climate field for the last three years and I can tell you it's a massive gap in the whole sector. And the way I spent 10 years in strategy, so I think in two by two matrix. So you got the rational, the brain side, and you got the emotional side.
And then it is like, what are you triggering? Is it hope or fear? Majority of the narrative that's happened in the climate field, I would say, is rational and fear. Right? But we are really lagging collectively in our efforts against climate mitigation, right? And so we really want, doesn't matter who it is, small companies, large companies, civic societies, everyone really being part of the solution. But how do you get them out of the comfort zone and really do something?
And I think you got to trigger the emotional part, right? That's really missing. And when you do the trigger, the emotional part, you can go down hope and fear both. Some people are driven by fear, some people are driven by hope, both lead to action. But ultimately, we need to transform being passive into really active contributors to solving this. And what a better way than art, right?
[00:27:44] Ana Serrano
Hear, hear. Claude, you've been dealing with this very issue for quite a long time, interviewing artists who are involved in climate resilience, action, climate activists who who are looking at figuring out how to generate that hope, but you've kind of found yourself in a hopeless place. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:28:09] Claude Schryer
Well, I will in three minutes. Welcome, everyone. I also want to welcome those who are listening on my Conscient podcast. It's being recorded tonight, so thank you everyone for that. Yeah, it's a good question, Ana. I'm a collapse accepter. And that's in the tradition of the Deep Adaptation Forum, in which we believe that fostering mutual support and collaboration in the process of anticipating, observing, and experiencing societal disruption and collapse.
So that means I'm not a doomer, but I spend my time in the reality of the climate, and I think we all do. And so what I wanted to say is that a few years ago, I was one of the co-founders of an organization called SCALE, which is about art and climate here in Canada, and we really felt that that the world could change through art. I still believe that, but I've been knocked down a bit by when David Suzuki talked about the climate change battle has been lost, or at least this part of it. And so what does one do in a situation like that? What kind of art do we need? What kind of institutional change do we need? What kind of collaboration?
We're going to talk about that later. Thankfully, art history tells us that there always have been a very important role of art and artists and social change. And that's ongoing. And so the example I want to give, because you asked for an example, Ana, it's a good one. It's from 33 years ago. When I was 32 in Montreal, I had the privilege of leading a large-scale electroacoustic music festival. I had all kinds of music installations, and the city of Montreal became a platform, platform for listening to the city.
And one of the pieces was called Droit de cité. And it had the FM network of Radio Canada was a partner of ours and we would have microphones in different parts of the city. And then during a classical music program, all of a sudden the city would be broadcast live without any announcement whatsoever. And so citizens were alarmed, what's going on? We've lost control of this radio. No, the radio is playing a role in awareness, environmental awareness, and we're having fun with it. With the mixture of, say, classical music and environmental sound. So that's one example. There are many others, some of them in my podcast, but I believe fundamentally in the role of the art, but I think we need to rethink it and I'll come back to that later.
[00:30:32] Ana Serrano
Thanks, Claude. I love, love, love that example. And in a way, Juan, it's kind of an example of cultural place making. It's an artistic project, but it also is situated in the work that you do at Culturons. How do you see this kind of community rooted cultural projects, whether in Mexico or in partnership with the EU or Canada, mobilizing people around climate action?
[00:30:59] Juan Erazo
Well, for us in cultures, art has been like a key thing, a key driver for everything that we do. But we mostly try to look at arts as not something that I think that the modern world has decided somehow that belongs only in a gallery. Or belongs only in the private collection of a few exclusive people, or maybe it's just the realm of students or sometimes crazy people who want to explore their creativity and that sort. We actually believe that the arts have a key role to play in society as a whole. And we want to activate the creativity of communities through the arts to create the cities of the future, basically, right? The cities that we want to live in. So regardless if you like art or if you have experienced art or like to do art, we want to invite communities from everywhere to join in through the creation of new ideas for the challenges that they face, right?
So we basically use art as a tool to get new ideas for challenges, for everyday challenges, basically. But of course, we focus a lot on climate and sustainability and that sort of thing. And that's where this partnership with Europe, for example, on our side, but also with Canada, the things that we have been doing lately is so important. I'm sure you will all agree that we live in crazy times, right? Wars everywhere, climate change, the realities that we cannot escape. And I totally agree with Akash that there's this really negative way, a negative view of the future. But if we work together, I think we can build something that is quite positive, especially to give to the younger generations, which I think they are in so much need for positivity and for a more positive drive towards the future. So, yeah, I think that today it's partnership, international partnerships are something that it's key. Especially for us in coal trends.
[00:33:11] Ana Serrano
Well, what's interesting in terms of what I'm hearing you all speak about is that, you know, there are scientists, engineers, artists, communities, you know, trying to make sense of this all. But what about the environment itself? Like, is there a path where nature-based solutions are part of climate adaptability that we need to also understand? Now, I understand that, I understand, Alice, that you've been working in this space for quite some time in terms of nature-based solutions and community involvement. And you've had a rich experience collaborating with a global network of climate's leading cities, C40, I believe, and a European Union program called the International Urban and Regional Cooperation that connects cities and regions to advance work on nature-based solutions, circular economy, and mobility among others, to help mitigate and address climate impacts. Can you talk a little bit about what that means? Like, what are nature-based solutions?
[00:34:14] Alice Xu
Sure, Ana. So first of all, thank you for having us and welcome to everyone to the City of Toronto. If you are a visitor, I promise the weather is always this nice. So feel free to come back anytime. And you know, and you probably have noticed some of the beautiful green spaces like the Music Garden, maybe on your way here or just the wonderful and vibrant waterfront that we have here. We at the City of Toronto treasure these pockets of green in the city. And actually, the City of Toronto is very well covered by trees.
Council Saxe, I know there can always be more. Every tree counts. That's what I have learned. But when we talk about nature-based solutions, we're talking about ways to use nature to adapt and mitigate climate change. And so we just had some work done going on around green infrastructure. But actually a lot of the work that's going on that the city supports and leads isn't something that you can see in our lands and waters on the ground level. It's actually in our buildings because the city is primarily still a vertical city.
And so we actually have a wonderful eco roof or green roof program at the city where we can bring nature into spaces, into these concrete jungles that you don't expect to find nature and find the healing that nature can bring us. We know a lot of people are experiencing so we're seeing a lot of isolation. Social isolation is a huge issue everywhere, including Toronto. And so that's something that nature, those gardens and those green groups can help. And I'm proud to say we also, we learn a lot from the European cities, Hamburg, for example, through our IURC partnership. Thank you for that. And other European cities who are leading the way on this work.
But I am also proud to say that we have the first North American green roof bylaw that mandates this, which just means we beat the Americans. And I don't, that's almost as good as beating the Yankees that I hear from my husband. And so, but that's something we need to talk more about. I think as Torontonians and even Canadians, we feel very shy about talking about.
[00:36:31] Ana Serrano
These things, but look for those green.
[00:36:32] Alice Xu
Roofs, look for those nature solutions, look for the ways that we can protect our environment and grow that sustainability community here in the city.
[00:36:41] Ana Serrano
Thank you so much, Alice. And you heard it here, we have to shout loudly and proudly on our rooftops about our rooftop projects. So Alice and Claude kind of began this, but this whole thing about giving examples. I want to turn it to the other panelists who just, you know, reflecting on your experience and lessons, how can international cross-sector collaboration bringing together artists, scientists, community stakeholders, public officials, help raise awareness and inspire concrete climate action. And can you give me one good example that you love? So anyone who can, and if you have more, Alice and Claude, feel free to add more. Who wants to start?
[00:37:30] Claude Schryer
I can start by saying that Cross-sectoral collaboration is a term I've been working with for, I don't know, 40 years. Trans, inter, cross, multi and all that. So I came up with a little game tonight that all the artists who are here tonight, I now proclaim you also scientists and all the scientists, you're also artists. So I've just resolved the problem.
What I wanted to say is that this week, Jane Goodall passed, who was a great primatologist, if that's the right word. And she talked about the consequences of our disconnection with nature. And I think that's one of the problems, whether you're an artist or a scientist, is reconnecting with nature.
We've talked about it today in our cities, in our natural spaces. And Audrey Lord, a black activist, talks about masters cannot dismantle what the master's house has built. And so that's part of the problem is that we're in modernity. Vanessa Andreotti just wrote a new book called Outgrowing Modernity. And the title says it all from my point of view, navigating complexity, which we've talked about, complicity, because we are complicit, even though we're trying to break out of a system, collapse with accountability and compassion. So that accountability and that compassion, talking about fear and hope, I think is really where we need to be. So in terms of examples, there's many on my podcast as I talk about, but I want to quote my daughter because there's some young people here and young people are the future of the planet inevitably and we have made a bit of a mess of the world, but we're also working together to fix some of it so that there is a chance to go through what will be some kind of collapse.
This is what she said in episode 208 : ‘change happens. There's always going to be ways to adapt. That's not to say that the initial change might not be catastrophic, but there was always gonna be something left and you have to work with that’. Now, it breaks my heart to hear that because for a young person to say that means that they don't anticipate there won't be a lot left. And yet we know that when we work with green spaces, we work with life, we work with art, we can rebuild, we can regenerate, but we have to do it differently. So that's what I have to say.
[00:39:55] Geneviève Tuts
Thank you, Claude.
[00:39:57] Ana Serrano
Go ahead, Juan. Oh, thank you.
[00:40:00] Juan Erazo
Well, you asked about cross-sectoral collaboration, right? So that's, I mean, everything we do at Cultural Lens is that. Every project that we have created has to do with how we join different sectors of society to work together, because it's kind of what we need right now, right? So many of our societies are just sector-based, right? And really differentiated with what everyone's doing, really separate it. So what we try to do is we have different programs and different projects where we focus mostly on communities themselves, but then we try to connect them with different type of stakeholders from different levels, from grassroots organizations to city builders to city decision makers. And we put them at the same level and put them to work together to create these ideas of what the future could be.
So, I mean, I have many projects and examples I could share, but at the top of my head, we just had a project that we're doing with OCAD University also that's the Good Enough Transformation Project, right? And it's joining different partners from around the world. Burkina Faso, it has partners in Europe, of course, Borneo, us in Mexico. And we're all coming together to discuss how vernacular practices can impact what we are doing today, right? So we're actually taking from the past and bringing it to whatever challenges we are facing, right? But we're also dialoguing with the communities themselves. So we are involving them.
Just to give you a quick example, in Mexico City we have this really amazing oasis, which is called Xochimilco, where there are these chinampas and the Chinampas are this ancient system that the Aztecs created to make a living of the city, but also to plant. They're really excited over there.
[00:41:59] Claude Schryer
Acoustic ecology.
[00:42:00] Juan Erazo
Acoustic ecology, yeah. But yeah, to create a living for the people, the cities are made that way. I'm sorry, just a little bit distracting. But yes, so that's one example of the things that we're doing. And we're actually preparing a couple of projects here, for example, for Toronto, to imagine the future of the waterfront. What could it be? What could happen here? And we're inviting many organizations to jump in with us.
[00:42:31] Ana Serrano
Tim Cochrane, where are you? You should meet this guy. He's part of the Waterfront BIA and some folks in Waterfront Toronto. So, thank you, Juan, Akash.
[00:42:44] Akash Rastogi
Yeah, for the oceans, actually international cooperation is just a necessity, right? Like, most of the planet, two thirds of the planet is oceans. And actually about half of that, more than half of that. So about half the planet is high seas, which no jurisdiction, like no country has jurisdiction over. And actually that is probably the most important part of the ocean when it comes to climate. The biggest carbon stores, everything is all in the high seas. And we shared the North Atlantic with Europe.
In fact, the North Atlantic is not only one of the biggest carbon stores across all the global oceans, but is going through a lot of changes, which could have really bad impacts on the Eastern Seaboard of North America and Western Europe from a climate perspective. And so you have to work together to solve the climate issues there. Just as an example, I'll say most of the fundamental problems we that's really, I would say inhibiting scale, because slowing at the fringes doesn't really lead to anything, right? We need to actually build solutions that can be scaled massively because part of the problem is actually unprecedented. Like the amount of things we got to do, humanity has never done. And I can share details about that, why that's the case. And we have to do that in like less than two decades. Right? And so I'll give you an example of an initiative we were working on, which is solving very fundamental companies when it comes to different funding models, but getting large corporates involved, improving the efficiency of carbon markets and so on, where we actually have partners that we're working on from France.
Like some of the leading banks in France are doing some amazing work on adaptation. We want to apply it here on mitigation. We are partners in the US, of course, Canadian institutions. So because those problems need to be tackled without solving those, nothing will scale.
[00:44:42] Ana Serrano
So we need artists who are interested in unpacking the kind of new financial models to help us rethink climate adaptability and be able to use that as actually sort of a set of artistic research questions to unpack and share with the public. There aren't that many artists like that who might be interested in that, but perhaps there are some in this room.
[00:45:08] Akash Rastogi
I think that's why you bring those disciplines together, because in my experience. The greatest value is always at the cross section of different disciplines. It's not going deep in one discipline at the intersection. And that's what we got to untap or tap into. I lost my chain of thought.
[00:45:30] Ana Serrano
Great. Alessandro?
[00:45:36] Alessandro Gisendi
For me, the focal point is to change people's habits is very difficult. And if you take out the motion of doing things, I think that is even difficult. So what can do art with all the science and politics? And founds, I think, that can find an empathy to try new solutions, because art is great in empathy and creativity. So I think that the possibility is to find new solutions, to do a lot of things, to continue to do nice things in a way that is more sustainable. Is possible to do with this climate crisis. And for example, it is not a big example, but we have a project that is called Biophilia that brings nature inside buildings, inside hospitals, inside offices. And I think that is nice because people can connect with the nature also in ambient that are not usually to be in the net. So I think that for us was a digital biofilter because we do installation, digital installation, but I think that connect more the people with the nature also in our home, in our offices, I think, is one way to try to change some habits. And the collaboration with the science is fundamental because this study, biophilia, is not an artistic thing, but it's science.
[00:47:35] Ana Serrano
Well, it's a cultural thing, yes. Okay, Alice, you've got to compete and yell out your Your last word.
[00:47:49] Alice Xu
I really like a mic, so it won't be a problem. I'm going to go off the script a little bit, Anna, because one, I think the wobbling of the boat really is getting to me. And I had fancier shoes, but I don't dare put them on. But I think what I've really heard this is the stuff that's been really exciting to hear about during Toronto Climate Week this week. So we were able to kick off, thank you, through Climate North, three days of activities. That's where I'm at, Akash, way back then. He was on a panel with my boss.
Now he has the schlup it with me. So sorry about that. But I think it's we have to bring people together. We have to talk about these things together because we're going to look at things differently. But we have a common goal. And I think that's the connection we need to start making. It doesn't have to be big.
Like we don't need to make everything changing tomorrow. We need to start making those connections and start making progress. And I think that's really what's going to drive those bigger ideas and really get us on the wave. You see what I did there? Okay.
[00:48:49] Ana Serrano
I see what you did there. So I timed this so that we're at 7:16 so that I can actually give one or two people on the boat a chance to either ask a question. So does anyone have a question here so that this becomes a bit more interactive, maybe? Anyone? Anyone? Okay, here we go. I think this is for anyone, but I.
My name is Coman, and I live in this neighborhood in an artist co-op called Arcadia. And I've been on Claude’s podcast, which is why I'm here. One of the things that we are all aware of is massive depopulation in the coming era, as well as in the local context of Canada, an increase in extraction for the sake of economic autonomy. And I just wanted to interface that and throw it in the room with all that you've been talking about, because I feel like those are the elephants in the room for.
[00:50:07] Ana Serrano
Go, Alice.
[00:50:08] Alice Xu
I mean, I think I couldn't agree more. I think why do we, you know, it's a value issue. So why do we value, no offense again, I'm picking on you, but business, right? Why do we value technology in the way that we do, but we don't value empathy and art the way that we need to? I think that's why we need to start showing the value in this work together and then, and be able to make again, those steps forward. That's why I think climate action is action and equity. It is the same as action, and it's part of action in reconciliation with the land.
So these are not separate things, right? Do you know what I'm trying to say? So the art that we're going to see tonight, the work that we're going to do together, build relationships, that's what's really going to get us moving forward.
[00:50:54] Ana Serrano
I think that's a what? Oh, Claude, okay, you have two minutes. Oh, Claude, okay, you have two minutes. Okay, two minutes.
[00:51:00] Akash Rastogi
Okay, I wouldn't take two minutes. I think just building on what Alice is saying, right? Like, there's a lot of flaws in the economic models we have in place, right? Including in Canada, the example Alice is taking, like, but, you know, why are teachers and nurses not paid better than a lot of other professions, right? Teachers take care of most precious asset, our kids. You know, they the kids are with their teachers more than they are with their parents. And why are they not paid more? Like compared to a lot of other professions. But I think it's also, I think this is a human behavioral thing, right? Natural assets, things that we don't pay for, that are free for us. Nature is one of them. Oceans is one of them. We tend to discount this value over time, not because Initially, we may have valued it a lot, but over time we started appreciating its value. And hence we have the tragedy of the commons. And oceans is the perfect example of that.
[00:52:05] Claude Schryer
I would say that we need to listen in particular to Indigenous elders and how those ways of beings can help us be what we need to become. And I think we'll see that some of those extraction projects might be necessary in the short term, but on the longer term, that's not really who we are and what we need. And if we talk about, as we talk to each other about culture and arts and who we are, I think we'll figure it out.
[00:52:30] Juan Erazo
I would just add that, yes, of course, Indigenous elders are important. We ourselves in Mexico have many of those communities, but I think we have to take into account everyone that lives in those cities because everyone has a different story and different background, and they all need to come together as a voice. To build together what it is that they want to become towards the future.
[00:52:54] Ana Serrano
There's a lot of work to be done. And I think this is just the beginning. I mean, we've been beginning, it seems like we've been at the beginning stage for a very, very long time. But we can't stop really. We don't really have much of a choice. So, convening like this, we can't stop really. We don't really have much of a choice. So convening like this, trying to figure out ways to create evocative, emotionally resonant works that will catalyze people into thinking about their relationship with the land, with water, with climate, and their daily actions is what tonight is all about. So it's 7 20. Look at that. So what this means is that I would like to thank our esteemed panelists for incredible insights in such a short period of time. Let's give them a round of applause. And so dissolving boundaries will be premiered at having its world premiere at 7 30. For those of you who don't know what the Malting Silos are, it's that massive building across from this boat. So there are a number of ways for you to see it. You can either all stay on this boat and move to that side and I don't know what's going to happen. Or, or you can go out and actually stand by the pier as well and there are benches and see the work.
It is a sound and visual installation and make your way slowly. The only caveat is that if you would like to have a drink while you're watching the artwork, you have to stay on the boat. But there's a downstairs as well. So yeah. And I have been told that if we all go on that side, it will not tip.
[00:54:57] Claude Schryer
So thank you, Anna.
[00:55:00] Ana Serrano
Thank you. Thank you.