My conversation with Japanese musicologist and soundscape researcher Keiko Torigoe at her home in Tokyo on May 21, 2025. Keiko is retired from her position as professor at Aoyama Gakuin University in Tokyo and is currently President of the Soundscape Association of Japan. Keiko is a long-time friend and colleague in the international acoustic ecology community who has done important research on soundscapes in Canada and Japan.
Keiko answered the two following questions in Japanese: first, ‘what is role of arts and culture is in times of crisis, collapse and renewal’ followed by ‘what about your current activities as a researcher and producer of community arts projects and what action points do you recommend’). I loved how her answers included the more-than-human world and locally rooted ways of listening. You can also listen to the original Japanese version of our conversation here.
この対談のオリジナル日本語版はこちらでも聴くことができる。
Show notes generated by Whisper Transcribe AI
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Story Preview
Imagine strolling around a tranquil pond in Japan, guided by a soundscape researcher who unveils the hidden stories of the land through music and conversation. This episode explores the power of listening, the interconnectedness of humans and nature, and the transformative potential of community art.
Chapter Summary
The Decline of Listening
Introducing Keiko Torigoe
Arts and Culture in Crisis
The Narrowing Concept of Music
Personal Journey and Artistic Exploration
Transformative Power of Art
Featured Quotes
Behind the Story
Claude Schryer travels to Tokyo to meet with Keiko Torigoe, a renowned musicologist and soundscape researcher. Keiko shares her passion for reconnecting with the natural world through listening and artistic projects. Her insights are rooted in her research in both Canada and Japan and her personal experiences in her hometown.
Transcription
Note: This is an automated transcription that is provided for those who prefer to read this conversation and for documentation. It has been verified but is not 100% accurate (some names might not be quite right). Please contact me if you would like to quote from this transcript: claude@conscient.ca
Keiko Torigoe (speaking in Japanese with an translation narrated by Sabrina Mathews)
The environmental issues currently at hand, including global warming, are related, but I believe that at their root lies the decline of our listening ability, the power of listening, as humanity. This decline is not merely a matter of our listening ability weakening as we age, but rather encompasses what we choose to listen to, how we perceive it, and all the various subjects of listening and methods of comprehension. I believe this decline is a collective issue for humanity, particularly in modern Western contexts where we have been taught that this is how to listen, especially in relation to music and everyday listening practices, and how we have become confined to these methods. We must have once believed in more locally rooted ways of listening, but we are losing that I think that is fundamentally connected to the current environmental issues.
Claude Schryer (in English)
My conversation with Japanese musicologist and soundscape researcher Keiko Torigoe at her home in Tokyo on May 21, 2025. Keiko is retired from her position as professor at the Aoyama Gakuin University in Tokyo and is currently President of the Soundscape association of Japan. Now, Keiko is a longtime friend and colleague in the international acoustic ecology community, and she's done some very important research on soundscape culture in both Canada and in her native Japan. I was very fortunate that Keiko kindly answered two questions in Japanese. My first question was about the theme of this season what is the role of arts and culture in times of crisis, collapse, and renewal? I then asked Keiko what she is passionate about these days and what she thinks artists, cultural workers, and listeners should do in order to better connect with human and more than human communities. You'll hear my wife, artists Sabrina Mathews, narrate the English translation of Keiko's responses. You can also listen to Keiko's original answers in Japanese from a link in the episode notes.
Claude Schryer (in English)
So, Keiko, thank you for coming on the program. Hello.
Keiko Torigoe (in English)
Thank you very much for coming to my place. Okay, I'm ready to start.
Claude Schryer (in English)
Okay, well, thank you for having me. So, I start with the question, what do you think the role of arts and culture is in times of crisis, collapse and renewal?
Keiko Torigoe (speaking in Japanese with a translation narrated by Sabrina Mathews)
The environmental issues currently at hand, including global warming, are related, but I believe that at their root lies the decline of our listening ability, the power of listening, as humanity.
This decline is not merely a matter of our listening ability weakening as we age, but rather encompasses what we choose to listen to, how we perceive it, and all the various subjects of listening and methods of comprehension.
I believe this decline is a collective issue for humanity, particularly in modern Western contexts where we have been taught that this is how to listen, especially in relation to music and everyday listening practices, and how we have become confined to these methods.
We must have once believed in more locally rooted ways of listening, but we are losing that I think that is fundamentally connected to the current environmental issues.
Although I cannot say for certain, I believe that even R. Murray Schafer, whose awareness I cannot gauge, was proposing the concept of soundscape in connection with such matters.
I mentioned earlier that there is a general decline in the deep meaning of listening, but there is also music. I think the very concept of music has become exceedingly narrow.
As noted in R. Murray Schafer’s The Tuning of the World, music originally had two aspects: one is the power of music for communication between humans, which I believe continues strongly today and is very important. However, we have forgotten the other aspect of music, which is the concept of music that connects not just humans but also the more-than-human world, allowing us to communicate with the entire natural realm.
We have forgotten this broader meaning of music, which in Japanese is referred to as 'kogi,' meaning a wider interpretation.
When we think of music, we think solely of communication between humans, which may be the strong point of music, whether verbal or non-verbal.
Yet prior to that, there is the issue of music and art as a means of communication with the more-than-human world, which has been largely forgotten or has become impoverished over time.
I believe that the concept of soundscape is proposed against this fundamental background.
Japanese people have historically engaged in various musical activities, but now, when we think of music, we refer to the concept of Western modern music imported during the early Meiji period, equating it with art and music.
In doing so, we have lost the connection to how we engage with that world, including appreciating nature aesthetically and employing various nuanced ways of listening, which I believe we have long forgotten.
It is a global issue, but I feel that it is also a problem for us Japanese on a daily basis.
Claude Schryer (in English)
We're here in your house in Tokyo and we're surrounded by your research and your books. And I'm very impressed by reading and hearing some of the things you're interested in. You probably just explained what I'm going to ask you, but I'm interested in what you talked to me about the other day around listening and more than human relations. But what's next for you? What are you passionate about right now? And what do you think artists and cultural workers and listeners should be doing more of to connect with both human and more than human communities?
Keiko Torigoe (speaking in Japanese with a translation narrated by Sabrina Mathews)
I have travelled to various places in Japan, and although Japan is one entity, the way of hearing things varies depending on the location, and there are different ways of interacting with the overall environment, including society.
Ultimately, when I think about what I want to know most deeply, it comes down to the place where I live.
By chance, I returned to the place where I was born and raised, and in 2000, I decided to build my home there.
I think I made that decision in the years before I became 45 years old.
At that point, I wanted to deepen my communication with the land not just by living there and going through the motions of sleeping and waking, but as a kind of artistic activity.
Or what was it like before I was born?
To carry out such activities, I have been working on a specific project called the Pondside Walk Concert since 2010.
This involves promenade concerts around lakes and ponds, and since it is the place where I was born, I have walked, ran, and played there since I was little.
I want to create a programme that conveys what I am thinking to the people who are there. In simple terms, while walking around the pond, I talk about various things, like what I did when I was small or what I find mysterious recently.
I turn my explanations into poetry and sing them myself, and sometimes my friend Kosuke Tsuji, who is also involved, to receipt and sing them too.
There are also drummers and other musicians, like a person who plays a Korean drum called a changgo while walking, and saxophonists, and various people come along depending on the time.
While collaborating with them, we share our experiences with the people who come and those who are there, which leads to further questions and desires to know more or to confirm things.
Over the year, we conduct various surveys and talk to local residents who have lived there for a long time, adding to our knowledge and gradually changing our methods.
We have been doing this for almost 15 years now.
After all, by taking action from our side and working with others, my relationship with that place has changed remarkably, and my feelings towards the pond in my hometown and its surroundings have also changed.
Art and such activities transform me, and having done it for many years, it gradually affects those around me as well.
For example, my mother, who is 93 years old, is hardly interested in what I am doing. She has never read any papers and probably hasn't read any books either.
However, she comes to that walk or event, walks together with us, and participates in the activities.
She does this together with the neighbours.
My mother finally said she understood what the practice was about, and she also shared stories from her youth.
Engaging in such activities over the years with those close to us is a way to continue and deepen our interactions with more-than-human entities.
Unexpectedly, spirits and deities from the past emerge, which is truly surprising. I find that various feelings are born within me, and I realise there are so many unknown aspects of my hometown.
It is important not just to objectively investigate what these people are like by going to some field, but I believe it is very meaningful to engage in such activities in the context of my own life and where I live.
Claude Schryer (in English)
I want to thank you for speaking about your work, at least in an initial way. And I'm seeing connections between Canada and Japan in terms of listening practices, traditional, contemporary, and I think we should continue dialogue and exchange. You came to Canada so many years ago and made a really important contribution in Canada through your research and in Japan, of course. So I look forward to future collaborations.
Keiko Torigoe (in English)
Thank you very much. Me too. Let's do so.