In this episode, Robin Sokoloski (she/her) discusses her recent experiences and current work in the arts research sector with a focus on how the arts community can have meaningful impact on climate change and on community-engaged arts, emphasizing the importance of relationships and collaboration in creating impactful art that resonates with communities.
Robin has been working in the arts and culture sector for over twenty years. I remember her coming to us while I was working at Canada Council with this crazy idea for Mass Culture and 20 years later it is wonderful organization where she is Director of Programming and Research of Mass Culture, where Robin is working with academics, funders and arts practitioners to support a thriving arts community by mobilizing the creation, amplification and community informed analysis of research.
My last conversation with Robin Sokoloski was e61 from research to action in 2021. This time we focused on the end of the world as we know it and the role of art came up, including how to use tools such as the Living Climate-Impact Framework for the Arts project, (see e195 emma bugg - art, scholarship and environment for details) and how to better mobilise the arts sector around climate change.
Robin, who is a co-founder of SCALE and a leading voice in the Canadian arts service organisation climate action movement and I like her ideas:
Robin also believes in community-engaged arts and the in ‘walking her talk’ by integrating participatory processes in everything she does:
After our conversation, I wrote to a friend that ‘Robin is one of the holders of key knowledge for the future of the arts in this country’ and I think she’s just getting started.
Robin recommends the following resources:
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Sections of the podcast (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)
Welcome Back
In this introductory chapter, Claude welcomes Robin back to the podcast after three years, setting the stage for an engaging conversation about art, climate change, and community arts.
Introducing Robin Sokoloski
Robin shares her background, including her roots in Brantford, Ontario, and her role as the director of Mass Culture, emphasizing the importance of understanding the art sector’s impact on society and the environment.
The Climate Crisis and Art’s Role
The discussion shifts to the current climate crisis, with Robin reflecting on her work related to environmental issues and how the arts community can contribute to meaningful change.
Living Climate Framework for the Arts
Robin explains the Living Climate Framework for the arts, a tool designed to help the arts community navigate complex conversations about climate action and its intersection with art.
Barriers to Engagement in the Arts
The conversation delves into the barriers faced by arts organizations in addressing climate change, highlighting the need for deeper discussions and tools to facilitate meaningful engagement.
Community Engaged Arts
Robin discusses the principles of community engaged arts, emphasizing the importance of relationships and collaboration in creating impactful art that resonates with communities.
The Future of Arts in a Changing World
The discussion turns to the future of community arts in the face of societal changes, exploring how arts can foster solidarity and cooperation in local communities.
Arts as Meaning Makers
Robin reflects on the role of the arts in making meaning of the world, especially in a time when trust in information is crucial, and how artists can narrate diverse truths.
Recommended Reads and Resources
Robin shares her current reading list, including insights from research on civic impact in the arts and the importance of experience design in bringing people together.
Transcription of e201 robin sokoloski - why arts matter
Note: This is an automated transcription that is provided for those who prefer to read this conversation and for documentation. It has been verified but is not 100% accurate (some names might not be quite right). Please contact me if you would like to quote from this transcript: claude@conscient.ca
Claude Schryer
Hey, Robin, welcome back to conscient podcast.
Robin Sokoloski
Thank you, Claude.
Claude Schryer
It was about three years ago that we had a conversation on Zoom, and now we're in person here at Toronto Metropolitan University. They valentus one of their studios, so that's very kind of them, and I thank them. Lots to talk about because you've been involved in many things that I've been involved with, mass culture and scale and all that. And I invite people to listen to the previous episode with you, which is episode 61, and they'll get an idea of where we were thinking about back then. But of course, things have evolved. The world has changed. There's lots that you're working on that interests this season because it's about the end of the world as we know it.
And you've been working on climate change, environmental issues, in and out of many other things with mass culture. So I'm interested in that. But also the community arts piece, because I've done a number of episodes now that are talking about community engaged arts. And I know that's a. It also weaves in and out of your work and one of your interests. So we'll talk about those things. And whatever you're on is on your mind in relation to art and the ecological crisis, because we're all living it. And you're working really at the heart of the art system because you're working with art service organizations and data, which is really important for us to grasp and to work collaboratively.
Let's start at the beginning. Why don't you give it, remind us who you are and your background, and then we'll jump into, you know, the end of the world.
Robin Sokoloski
All right.
Claude Schryer
Or the beginning of a new world.
Robin Sokoloski
What do you think? Continuation? We'll see. My name is Robin Sakalowski. My pronouns are she and her. As Claude said, we're joining you from Toronto Metropolitan University. So we're in Toronto, which is where I've spent more than half my life now on Treaty 13 territory.
I grew up about an hour outside of Toronto in a town called Brantford, Ontario, along the Grand river. And that's a constant reminder for me of all the constant flow of change. But where we're rooted and connected to it also very closely borders Six nations reserve. So that is something that I'm constantly reminded of, that I actually was born and raised on stolen land and what that means to myself, my identity, my family, and how I can act going forward. I'm also the director of Mass Culture, which is a national arts research organization, an art service organization that really focuses on harnessing the data research knowledge for the art sector itself so that we can better understand ourselves as an arts community, but also the value we bring to the rest of society and the environment.
Claude Schryer
Well, listeners will be familiar with episode 183 that you were involved with, and I did as well because it was an episode around leadership, cultural leadership, with the imagine, imagine public imagination, public imagination network, that Shannon Litzenberger, who's been on the show twice. So there's lots of friends and colleagues in the arts community in Canada that end up on this program. Just a few days ago, I talked with Judy Pearl and her work at the National Arts center. And what I find interesting is to learn about new things, what people are doing. And sometimes it gets into vulnerable places because we are at a very delicate time in humanity. Just yesterday, President Biden resigned and things are changing, and who knows what will happen this fall. But where are you at in terms of your work in and around climate change and environmental issues?
I know that you've done some things with mass culture, but how are you feeling about it these days?
Robin Sokoloski
I think I might start by kind of giving a little bit of a, for people who know me best, I'm a visual thinker, and so I might want to start there. And so I can always go back to that kind of analogy, that metaphor and pull from there as we talk about these various different, very large things. So I'm not sure if you remember, Claude, but we had a conversation last time we talked when we were talking about what art is. And I described it as this, well, that I believe that we are all connected by these invisible threads, the shared sinew amongst all living things. That includes humans, plants, animals, what have you, and that what art is is the lighting up, making those invisible threads visible. So there you have a system, and I think that it's important to have an idea of what paint a picture in your head of what that, how I view, I guess, my worldview on what the system looks like for me and the role that art plays in it. It doesn't really explain in that analogy what art is, but it certainly speaks to the way it functions and why it should matter to society, why arts should matter.
So I think that by thinking about that and painting that picture in your head, I think that it speaks to the very important role that I feel I can play within my capacity at mass culture to really be a convener, bring folks together to talk about, I guess, the environmental issue specifically and how intersects with the arts. So our, I guess, main feature, because how mass culture operates is we're really focused on building up the infrastructure for research and data and knowledge to be well supported and practiced within the arts community. So in order to do that, you have to provide the tools and the training for that work to occur. Our central focus at the moment, which is three years in the making, is the living climate framework for the arts that we supported Emma Bug, which I think you also recently interviewed. So all of our conversations are really, and the conversations I'm engaged in, which are many when it comes to art and climate, are being centrally focused on that particular framework, because I do feel as though it is an incredible, well researched, practical tool that can be utilized both by the art sector and beyond to navigate these very tricky conversations, these conversations of complexity towards action. And that's what gives me faith that the arts community can play a very significant role in having a positive impact on the climate crisis.
Claude Schryer
That's a very good answer, because Emma Bugs episode goes much more in detail about the framework, and I promised Emma and you and others, I said it on the program, that I would use it this summer. And I think that's part of the joy of a framework, is that you play with it, you poke at it, you answer the questions, and then you might or might not succeed because there is no success as such. It's just a way of becoming more aware of what you're doing and what you're feeling and how your audiences are responding or not. What are their fears? What are your fears? I think all that needs to be unpacked so that we can move forward. I mean, you and I were at a session on June 20 with art service organization and Vicki Strohak, who I want to get on the episode, on the program, talked about the impact of wildfires at the caravan Farm theater in BC and how that's a reality here in Toronto.
Just a few days ago, there were floods and there's probably still water. I saw some as I came in here. You know, this is a new reality for people, and I hope it's sinking in that we need to change the way we live, or else it will become unlivable, not tomorrow, but in the next few years. So I know that the arts play an important role because I see the work and I see the impact. But what you're trying to do, I think, among other things, is measure it and create tools. In fact, I love the idea of tools because they're so practical, because they've been tested. You've gone through a theoretical exercise and all that.
So how is that framework going. I know I'm a bug, but how kind of feedback have you received from users and from the community about those kinds of things? I'm noticing that people are a bit intimidated by the, the breadth of the climate emergency. You know, what can I do that's actually going to be impactful? So what are you learning?
Robin Sokoloski
Well, what I'm learning, and I'm glad you brought up Vicki, because that is someone with caravan farm theater who we tested Emma's framework with. The framework makes these conversations towards action feel achievable. I think that is, that alone just gives me goosebumps. That is an incredible feat. And that is all contributed back to the fact that we took the time to build up the relationships needed to give space for research to occur, to listen to the community, give the researcher time to develop out what they were hearing, what they were sensing, and then go back in a very iterative way and test it again. We tested Emma's framework with Vicki Streutch and her staff at Caravan Farm Theater and I just had an amazing conversation with her. She's going to be providing a reflection piece on how, by applying the framework, what it did to their organization, and really what it did is it creates, it's a thinking tool.
We're so good at bringing people together and having as an arts community and having conversations on a very surface level about very serious, complex issues. But we need the tools beyond just facilitation and different convening models. We actually need the measuring sticks or whatever is at our disposal that we can feel confident in to be able to have those deeper level conversations. And that's what this framework does. I'm noticing as I'm bringing the art service organizations together around these conversations around climate, it's been very focused on climate mitigation. Fine, fair enough. I think that's a very important and valuable thing to be aware of.
But now, whether we like it or not, we're at a point where we need to start thinking about climate adaptation. And this is a new frontier for me. I know it's also very new space for the funders. And so what I think we need to be able to do, and what I feel very proud of what we're starting to achieve, is bringing both the funders together with different actors within the arts community to apply tools like Emma's framework to have these deep conversations about how we can move towards action. What does this look like for us now? What changes do we need to make?
Claude Schryer
The creative green tools and other tools are there for carbon footprint measurement and measurement of artistic impact. But what I noticed at June 20 is that people were talking about having other issues to deal with, like survival of their arts organization after Covid. And so I'm noticing, you know, you and I were part of those Friday meetings in 2011 when we set up scale, and scale continues to this day, thankfully, but it doesn't have the momentum that it did in even, you know, 2019 before COVID or in that. That period at the beginning. I think because it's so hard to be an artist and arts organization, the society needs us more than ever. I use the US, I guess, but so I wonder what you think some of the barriers are. I know they were being identified by art service organizations and artists themselves, and I feel, and a lot of it, due to your work with mass culture, because you're a convener, I feel there is a new momentum starting up now that people are starting to breathe a bit and being able to face some of those complex issues with their art and with their operations.
But where do you think we're at? What are some of the barriers or gaps for the arts community to become even more engaged? I mean, you talked about the tools, but what more can and should we do collectively?
Robin Sokoloski
There's no denying that we are headed towards some pretty precarious times as an art sector, which is only going to create more barriers and make it even more difficult in terms of being able to have these conversations. Conversations that need to happen. However, I feel like something I've learned along the way is the creating an intentional space, which is what I feel is the intention behind scale as well, to create the. Look at this as a process, an ongoing continuum of multiple conversations, even if they need to be repeated and have them over and over again. The reality is there's always going to be voices missing from those initial conversations. So it's. It definitely warrants having a repeat of those conversations, even if everyone's hearing it for the hundredth time, which I'm sure you have, Claude, being in all of those rooms multiple times, but creating space, which is what mass culture does to carve out the time needed to really have those high level engagement conversations.
Emma and I actually just had a conversation a couple weeks ago with an individual who is working with others, a lot of funders in California that are thinking about a carbon neutral cultural California, and thinking about how they might use Emma's framework to enact some of those conversations and bring people together, which is so exciting. So, and she said to Emma and I, and I think this is because she's coming at it from a funder's lens, is how do you engage arts organizations in this work? They have very little capacity, and I was kind of a bit taken aback by that because I think that this matters so much to arts organizations who are also socially purposed organizations. It's just ingrained in their DNA as arts organizations to want to create pathways on how to have a better society and environment in our world. I think that the arts and artistic practices are one main, very main and focused function of an arts organization. But of course, how could you be amongst the world and doing artistic work without being rooted and connected to all the other things that are going on and wanting to be involved in the complexity of things? I think where the capacity issue comes up is when you're being asked to come to those conversations just to have that surface level discussion yet again.
So we need to create space for it to go deeper. So when I say these conversations and repetition, they might feel that way, but they're always edging a little bit closer to where we want to get to. And I do see the progress and the incremental shift in being able to have these conversations over time. And one other function that I think is very important that mass culture does is to document these conversations over time so that people can see it. They can also reflect on what was said and create some sort of sense making on how we might be able to learn from what we're doing and what we're talking about and adapt and move forward. So there is a very rigorous process that has to be applied by an intermediary such as a mass culture to be able to support that high level, engaged conversations to occur.
Claude Schryer
And that's sort of what I'm doing with this podcast in French and in English, because a lot of people don't travel as much as they used to, and they don't know each other. Just last week I was talking with Tanya Kalmanovic about her Alberta tar Sands songbook and how, you know, not that many people saw it, but it's a great story. And we went for a walk in the mud at number nine gardens near Kingston. And that to me is my contribution. I used to work at the Canada Council, and I know that they're doing some research this summer, and there's the SATA project, which is sustainability in the arts that Dalhousie and York are doing together. So there's lots of research, lots of activity, but it's not. See, I've kind of moved on from that to societal collapse because that's where I think we already are.
We're in the beginnings of that. It's hard to see, right. Because the city is vibrant as Toronto. The signs of the flooding is really not. That's not what I'm talking about.
Systems falling apart little by little. And that's very hard. It makes me cry, you know, to think about those things, and I don't want them to happen. But I feel I'm going to be 65 this year. And it's like, what am I going to do with the next ten years? Am I going to just do podcasts all the time? I don't know, because I will follow where there is need and I will try to prepare the way for future generations the way our predecessors have done for us.
You know, we inherited a pretty good world, lots of issues, but so what are we doing to prepare the world for the next generations? I think we're doing a lot, and I think the arts do a lot in ways that we don't recognize, we don't see. And I like that analogy of, was it shedding light at the beginning that you talked about?
Robin Sokoloski
Yeah. The making the invisible threads visible through light.
Claude Schryer
Right. And those threads are life. Right.
Robin Sokoloski
Those are the connect us. It's what allows us to see beyond ourselves. That's the evidence. All the evidence I need to know the significance of the arts is that these connections that I really firmly believe in between all living things are the arts, allow us to see beyond who we are and understand that we are truly all connected to one another.
Claude Schryer
Yeah, all kinds of arts. And of course, some arts are referring back to the western canon, and some are more grounded here, and there's all kinds of forms of expression. Speaking of which, I wanted to talk about community arts because you always find a way to get me to think about community arts. Not that I need that necessarily, but I love the way that you walk, your talk, the way that mass culture and many of your projects are designed. They're quite participative and not necessarily art making, but they are participative in the design and in the process. And then you tell me about things. I went to that session here in Toronto, and I'm doing an interview with Maggie Chang this afternoon, who was young scientist, artist, and so that, you know, thank you for those connections, but what about community engaged arts?
I know it's an interest of yours, so maybe we'll start there. What's your connection to that? Why do you find it interesting and useful?
Robin Sokoloski
So I believe you also interviewed Judith Marcuse for one of your podcasts.
Claude Schryer
Yes, I did. Yeah.
Robin Sokoloski
So I, and she is someone who I have so much admit admiration for, she said to me repeatedly, which I think she's quoting from somewhere else, she'll be the first one to tell you that is, how do you get from there to there? And so that has sat with me and how I interpret that is how do you go about we tend to operate as an arts community and society just doing things because they maybe it's the right thing to do. It feels immediate. It's what you're being told to do. But we don't take the time to take several steps back and understand where the here to there is. What do we know about ourselves? How are we taking time to really understand that?
And for me, community engaged arts is really a set of principles that I have completely been able to live by throughout my career. So fortunately, specifically within mass culture, I align community engaged arts very closely to a methodology within academia called participatory action research. And what's so relevant and how I feel that community engaged arts can have a real significant impact on art and climate is because of these principles. So it always rates relationship above anything else. I would say that relationships come before the art itself. Before, if you're thinking about this in terms of research, before the research itself, there are other principles that I'm just going to pull up here that I wanted to refer to. Everything is so there's a commitment to collaborative processes, so generating practical applications.
Relevancy, how does it matter, the work that you're doing, artistic or research wise, matter to the community that it's serving? How are you engaging those folks to make sure that the relevancy is there, that exists and then also just establishing working practices together? What do the community agreements look like? How can we find ways of working together better? All of these different key principles I think apply to community engaged arts and are a real source for us to go to.
In terms of. When you think about that analogy that I brought up earlier with those invisible lines and the light of art shining through them and making them visible, community engaged arts is at the very heart probably the brightest light in my mind amongst all that can really function and do that work because it's so connected to all of the folks that it brings together. So relationships, I guess I've learned so much. Bye. Being very observing and keeping closely connected to that particular artistic discipline and how I want to move forward in the world and make a difference.
Claude Schryer
Well, in a previous episode with Luc Lalande, they've taken a high school in Ottawa called the Rideau High School and turned it into community hub. And so they want to do a lot more community engaged arts in between those in the building. And one of my interests in community arts is as the world, let's call it, changes. But I really am thinking about it falling apart, or at least falling apart in certain places. We'll need community solidarity, we'll need cooperative systems and sharing food. And then where will the arts be now? It's hard to speculate.
Will people still go to the opera? Will there still be opera houses? Will they become housing units? Who knows, right? I'm talking down the road because of what's been projected by the IPCC and others. There's a report by policy writes in Canada called disruptions that's very troubling because these trends are, some of them are seemingly irreversible given our current behavior. So I think community arts and arts in general will have a really important role to play, especially regionally.
We won't be able to travel as much as we are now. So we will be in our communities and we will have songs and we will have play stories, and we will have, you know, drawings and like we've always had. But I'm really interested to make sure that the many traditions of art making, including communicated arts, are available to artists and to communities to draw upon. Hopefully there will be artists everywhere. They tend to be convergent cities now, but maybe they'll end up in all communities. But that's part of the speculation. And I'm starting a project that I'm calling the artist survival kit.
And it sounds a bit severe, but it's really what have we learned over the years and periods of crisis? How have the arts in the past played important roles in healing and bringing people together and avoiding conflict, but sort of managing conflict and. Yeah. And how will the arts do that in the future?
I don't know. Does that trigger any thoughts for you?
Robin Sokoloski
Definitely. It's budding like this. I have this budding thinking line of thinking that I have been working on because I've been asked to write an article or a chapter for this book on cultural citizenship. And so now I'm kind of shifting towards thinking not just about that system, but the roles that, the various roles that arts can play within that system. And for me, I wanted to add to what you just said based off of that policy horizons report. I think that they also reported on the biggest issue around AI is just what to trust, what information to trust. And so my thinking of late is that I think a really important role that the arts and artists and creative will have to play is that of meaning maker.
That's how we contribute as cultural citizens to society, is making meaning of the world in a way that, again, going back to those principles of community engaged art, really focus on how we bring people together around knowledge, information, and data that is trusted, and that's through a process. And I think that the arts have such a significant role to play in making meaning of the world in maybe more ways than it currently does now.
So that's what I would have to.
Claude Schryer
Add to that, and we could go on. I've been reading about the difference between facts and the truth or truths, right. Because facts are somewhat irrefutable, even though they can be manipulated, but generally, they have a methodology. But the truth is whatever you choose to believe. Right. So I agree that the arts can not only sense make, they can shed light on what is seemingly not credible and. Or create new worlds, create new realities that we haven't thought of yet.
That brings us out of those sort of worlds that are. I don't know. See, I get lost in these. The words to describe reality and truth and all these things.
Robin Sokoloski
We're so used to working and just taking at face value data as fact, when in fact, that's not factual. Data is oftentimes it has to be interpreted by someone who you may or may not trust. So I think that having an artist at the helm of how to narrate the stories of our society, our environment, our cultures, puts the narrator right in front of you and so. And hopefully invites you to participate in the multiple narratives within a single narrative, because that is where truth lies, is in the pluralism of a narrative. So I think that that, again, just reinforces what you just said, reinforces my thinking on the important value that the arts can play as meaning makers.
Claude Schryer
Well, I'll put some of the things that you talk about in the episode notes and look forward to that paper that you're writing or will write and have published. Because I was going to say, you're a meaning maker yourself, but you're somebody who has a sense of how to structure networks, I guess. Right? Networks of data, networks of people. Networks of. More than humans as well, in the sense of. I know you've talked to me about your dog and your relationship to animals.
Well, I find that very endearing. We were just at the cottage yesterday, and there was a beautiful snapping turtle on.
On our dock. And I've been there 25 years, and I've never seen a young snapping turtle on the dock.
So what does that mean? Maybe there reaching out to us, maybe there's a bit more trust.
We don't know. But there's just such warmth in all kinds of relationships, including humans ones, but so many others. I know you have to get back to work. It's July 22 and it's a Monday and I'm going to ask the last question that I unless there's other things, there are probably other things that you prepared. But anyway, we can go on. But what are you reading and listening to these days that you would like to share? Because I always find that insightful.
Robin Sokoloski
Well, if you want to take a deep dive into how the process of research itself and how it engages with the arts community, and also to get to know Emma and her fellow researchers a little bit better, I would recommend the research in residence arts civic impact podcast that was just produced by doctor Sean Neumann through the Toronto Arts foundation. It's a seven episodes and it goes really, it's a deep dive into how research can be done within the sector. I find that the way he pulled all of the very complex, different pieces over that three year project to get from bringing people together all the way to devising what an arts impact framework might look like, is very intriguing. I also, although I never had a chance to meet with her and always regretted it, I did make a commitment to read all of the recommended readings in Diane Ragsdale's blog, and one of the publications I came across based that was recommended by Diane was emergent strategies by Adrienne Marie Brown. And I just became obsessed with that book. It's just so interesting in terms of how to bring people together, to really think through and speculate on what the world might be. And I think that the arts and other fields will need that capacity, that skill set, in order to make sense and also support the present.
So I think that's a really important book. I've also been very interested as of late in experience design, so I took a course through third rail theater projects that's on Atlas Obscura's website just so that we can understand, because there's always new things, new tricks to understand how to bring people together, not necessarily how to experience an artistic experience, but how just to bring people together in relation with one another. I think that's an ongoing experiment for me and something that I'm always trying to get better at so that I can support these conversations of complexity.
Claude Schryer
Complex indeed. I just yesterday, today, canceled a project that was very dear to my heart, which was a potluck in my house. I called the art in ecology potluck, and I did two of them, and I found it too difficult to convene because convening takes a lot of energy. You have to read the room, you have to constantly nurture relationships. And, you know, and I just couldn't do it. I felt, I really felt the need to get together. And of course, I get together with people here and there, but I was doing them in my living room and I said, let's do the old fashioned get together in your living room over food, and maybe we'll do it again one day.
But it's interesting how things need to happen naturally, I think, organically, let's call it that way, in terms of wanting to get together. And then somebody takes a lead, somebody says, oh, I can do that part and I can do this part. So maybe it was a bit too soon to do it, or maybe it was too complicated. People are so busy that they can't. But I feel a relief personally from not doing that particular project on the way up here. We're talking about failure. You know, it's not failure so much as it is being true to your energy.
And if your energy is a convening energy, then go for it, because we need convening. But if it's another type of energy. So what kind of energy do you have right now these days?
Robin Sokoloski
It's funny, I was just thinking this morning, because next week I'm taking a holiday, which I'm house sitting for my parents, and I can and just envision them when I walk into the house to be like, oh, are you planning on having a party? And I just was having this imaginary conversation with my parents in my head. And like, mom, I don't have the energy to organize a party. Sure, I have the desire. I love bringing folks together, but it is, it is work for sure. There's no getting around that. I do think it comes to me naturally to want to bring a host of folks together to uncovered something that we might already sort of be aware of, but hasn't been come to the surface because we just haven't come together yet.
And I think that's where things come naturally and organically if you do it properly. But you do have to create the right type of environment for those opportunities to occur. And there is a lot of work in that and it's something I'm very focused on at the moment and I have a whole lot of energy for because I do believe the expertise exists in the room. We just haven't again, going back to that analogy, bringing all of the right connections together so that we can cohesively discover what we probably are somewhat all aware of, but aren't completely have the picture. I'm reminded of another analogy where everyone has a hand on an elephant and you're aware of one aspect of the elephant, but you don't know that you're actually touching an elephant because you only have access to one part of it. And if you're. It's not until you all open your eyes and see what you're actually touching together as a group that it becomes more clear what that actual thing is.
Claude Schryer
Well, in the room here, there's a beautiful multicolored stripe, and I've been looking at it for the last half hour as we've been talking, Robin, and I just. I'm really touched by what you said at the beginning and reiterated around the role of the arts, because I hadn't heard that spoken that way before, and it really rings true to me that I think of it as shedding light. But like I said, you described it differently. But I think of if we couldn't see all this beauty here or all these colors, we would need the arts to show us what's already there. In a way, the arts could create things, but they also are sort of bringers of perception. It's like shedding some of the numbness that we have so that we can experience life more fully. Does that make sense?
Robin Sokoloski
Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's so multifunctional, but what it does is. Yeah, it's forms of expression. I've always explained, when I've had 5 seconds to do so, that art is humanity, superpower. It's our ultimate form of communication. And so whatever that ends up looking, like through visual metaphors or music, it is what connects us and reminds us that we're connected.
Claude Schryer
Well, thank you, Robin, for today and for all your hard work. It's much appreciated.
Robin Sokoloski
Thank you.