As promised during our first conversation on June 10th, 2024, in e187 alice irene whittaker - caring for the planet I love, I’ve now read Homing: A Quest to Care for Myself and the Earth book that came out on Tuesday, September 3, 2024.
Here is my review of the book. Please keep in mind that this is my first try at being a literary critic. Luckily, it was easy, because I loved the book and highly recommend it to everyone.
I loved the flow of the book, like gently canoeing down a river with occasional sudden rapids but with some portaging. And I notice that you often refer to rivers in the book. We’ll come back to that.
At times the mix of practical and poetic did not work for me but then I’m not your average reader either, because my life story is actually much like yours, except that that I was a perfectionist and overachieving musician instead of a dancer - and I didn’t break my arm, not yet anyway. I think we were brought up equally enamoured with nature and worried sick about the implication of modernity and our complicity in it, though we would not have used that language back then…
So on the practical side I enjoyed learning more, for example, about eco-responsible local living : the buy nothing movement, the unbuilding movement, the permaculture movement and so on. I also loved hearing about that magical 37th degree isotherm and other stories of life on earth that warms the spirit.
Here are some my highlights:
And this last one, more on the poetic side, made me nostalgic for winter:
Beautiful, engaging writing.
And of course your Homing book made me think about my own domestic life and my own idea of home.
An excerpt from episode 185 of this podcast with indigenous artist Sandra Laronde came to mind:
I can see affinities between Sandra’s statement about home never leaves you and the purpose of your book which is about :
What then is hope? What is home? What is life? What is love? You ask a lot of questions.
One of things that caught my attention in Homing was the idea of ‘breakdown’ (some might call it ecological and societal collapse) but systemic breaking down in one way or another, which is a necessary step in nature’s regeneration process but is also necessary for us to live through as we exit the modern world and btw the word through is very important in your book. We’ll come back to that.
So, I would say that Homing is a hoot - a funny and moving book - but it’s also a sobering book that is connected to reality.
What your book shows us, Alice Irene, is how to batten down the hatches and to get ready for a storm that is already here, as you’ve experienced this week with the floodings in Chelsea, Québec and the disappearance of your gardens and some of your beloved natural spaces but it’s also about unblocking creative energies and working through that dynamic. Working through…
I like the way you put it on page 171:
Overall, I would say that Homing is a valuable addition to ecological and climate crisis literature. It’s so deeply personal that we can literally feel your pains and joys but it’s also a universal story that can appeal to anyone, anywhere.
And I think that it’s a literary tour de force and I want to thank you, and your family, for sharing your story and I hope you write a sequel, when you’re ready. I’m really curious to know what happens next.
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Chapters (generated by AI and corrected by Claude Schryer)
Reconnecting and Reflecting
Alice Irene and Claude reconnect after their previous conversation, setting the stage for a deep dive into Alice Irene’s new book. They discuss the significance of the book’s launch and the events surrounding it.
A Journey Through the Book
Claude shares her heartfelt review of Alice Irene’s book, describing its flow and it’s mix of practical and poetic elements and how Alice Irene reflects on the themes of nature, personal experiences, and the book’s impact on her own understanding of home.
Exploring the Concept of Home
The conversation shifts to the idea of home, Alice Irene discussed the emotional and philosophical implications of what home means in a changing world.
The Necessity of Breakdown
Alice Irene introduces the concept of breakdown as a necessary step in nature’s regeneration process. This theme resonates throughout the book, prompting a discussion on how it relates to personal and societal challenges.
Personal Stories and Vulnerability
Alice Irene reflects on the personal nature of her writing, discussing how her experiences shaped the book with an emphasis on the importance of sharing vulnerabilities and the healing power of storytelling.
Navigating Perfectionism
The conversation delves into the struggles of perfectionism and its impact on environmentalism. Alice Irene shares her candid experiences, highlighting the complexities of living sustainably in an imperfect world.
Guilt and Accountability
Alice Irene discusses the feelings of guilt and shame that often accompany environmental choices. She advocates for a more compassionate view of our actions and the importance of community support.
The Journey Through Motherhood
Alice Irene draws parallels between childbirth and the journey of environmental stewardship, emphasizing the concept of ‘through’ as a theme in her life and writing. The discussion highlights the unique perspective of mothers in the environmental movement.
Finding Home in Erosion
The conversation returns to the theme of home, particularly in the context of environmental degradation. Alice Irene shares her recent experiences with flooding, prompting a deeper exploration of what home means when it is literally eroding.
Grief and Regeneration
Alice reflects on the emotional toll of losing parts of her home due to climate change. She discusses the grieving process and the potential for regeneration, both personally and ecologically.
Embracing Eco Grief
In this chapter, the conversation delves into the concept of eco grief and its importance in shaping how we live moving forwardf with an emphasis on the need for emotional intelligence and community support during times of loss.
Community Connections
The discussion highlights the power of community during crises, illustrating how neighbors come together to support one another in challenging times. Personal anecdotes reveal the deep bonds formed through shared experiences of vulnerability and mutual aid.
Art as a Healing Tool
Exploring the role of art during difficult periods, Claude and Alice Irene reflect on how creative expression can help individuals process grief and loss. They contemplate the importance of rituals to honor what has been lost and foster community healing.
The Dance of Life
The conversation shifts to the intersection of art and personal experience, They touch on the complexities of life, where joy and sorrow coexist, and how this duality can inform the creative practices.
Celebrating Literary Achievements
As the conversation wraps up, Claude and Alice Irene discuss the significance of book launches and the collaborative nature of writing.
The Power of Podcasting
Claude and Alice Irene exchange about the world of podcasting, discussing how it serves as a platform for sharing meaningful conversations and insights. They highlight the interconnectedness of their respective podcasts.
Transcription of e196 alice irene whittaker (part 2) - homing, a book review
Note: This is an automated transcription that is provided for those who prefer to read this conversation and for documentation. It has been verified but is not 100% accurate (some names might not be quite right). Please contact me if you would like to quote from this transcript: claude@conscient.ca
Claude Schryer
Welcome back, Alice. Irene, thank you.
Alice Irene Whittaker
So nice to talk with you again.
Claude Schryer
So, as I promised during our first conversation on June 10, 20024 that was a couple of months ago. That's episode 187 for people who want to listen to the first one first before you listen to this one. It was called caring for the planet. I love. And it was really nice to get to know you through that conversation. And I mentioned that I would be doing a second conversation with you about your book, a quest to care for myself and the earth. And I'm going to publish this the day of the launch on September 3. So I know that after that, there's a series of events in Ottawa and maybe elsewhere, and I'll put those in the episode notes so people can not only get the book, but attend events where you're speaking and that kind of thing.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Thank you.
Claude Schryer
And so I've written a review of the book, which I don't think I've ever written a review of a book before, formally, you know, so it's like a little. And. But it, you know, so I'm pretending to be a literary critic, but in this context, it's pretty easy because I like the book. In fact, I love the book. I have some comments on it, of course, and I recommend it. You know, I just finished it today, literally, and it's so beautiful to read and to go on the journey with you. So we'll talk all about that.
But first I want to do, I want you to just sit quietly and listen to the review, and you can take notes there if you want, if you have things that come up, and then we'll talk about it, you know? But my review, I think, is a way for me to tell you what my experience was in reading the book and for listeners as well.
Here we go.
I love the flow of the book, like gently canoeing down a river with occasional sudden rapids and some portaging. And I noticed that you often refer to rivers in the book, so there's a river theme, and we'll get back to that. At times, the mix of practical and poetic did not work for me. But then I'm not your average reader either, because my life story is actually a little bit like yours, except that I was a perfectionist and overachieving musician instead of a dancer, and I didn't break my arm, not yet anyway. But I think we were both brought up in a way where we were enamored with nature as children and worried sick about the implications of modernity and our complicity in it at the time. We wouldn't have used those terms, but I certainly felt that, and I think you did as well.
So on the practical side of the book, I enjoyed learning more about eco responsible local living, which is not a new thing to me. The buy nothing movement you talked about, the unbuilding movement was new to me. The way that you take apart a building and then you reuse the pieces permaculture I knew about. And I love the way you talked about the 37th degree isotherm in relation to butterfly life. So, I want to come back to that. But these are some of the new things that I discovered because it's a mix of science and, and poetry. And so you learned a lot of things, and there's some really great stories in the book.
So I'll give you a couple of quotes of things that I really liked. You talk about fashion as an ecosystem of justice, climate, soil, labor, gender, creativity, expression and culture, made up of people, each with their own offerings and niche, intricate and in its diversity and interconnections. And that's a whole section about sustainable fashion, which I don't know that much about. I appreciated that. And at one point you talked about it's time for a whole of self-transformation, one that is messy and imperfect and wholehearted, which must not be easy for a perfectionist to do, to embrace. We'll get to that. And I love your thinking around economic issues.
You wrote that for the circular economy or any alternative model to be meaningful, it has to recognize indigenous worldviews and pay reparations to the people who have been exploited, traumatized and marginalized in the centuries long project of the linear, patriarchal, colonial and capitalist economy. And that kind of language resonates with me.
I think that's right on. And there's one on the more poetic side that I really enjoyed. In fact, I listened to it, I read it a few times, and each time I had sort of an image in my mind. Snow is water holding its breath, a calm pause after a deep inhale, waiting for that great exhale of spring when I, instead of air, water rushes forth with relief. So that's a beautiful transition between winter and spring. And the language was really wonderful. Of course, the book homing made me think about my own home.
We're sitting in our home, my home here in Ottawa, and what is my own idea of a home. And I haven't settled on it yet, but I hadn't thought of it the way you have. But I did talk to an artist, an indigenous artist, Sandra Laronde, who interestingly mentions home. And I'll read you what she said. I really believe that we carry the spirit of the land wherever we go. In the western canon, they say that once you leave home, you can never return. But in the indigenous canon, home never leaves you. So I see affinities between Sandra's statement about home never leaves you and the purpose of your book that's in the book cover about care, motherhood, healing, faltering, and searching for ways to live during breakdown, and about finding home when our planetary home is eroding and questioning how and whether to have hope, which, of course, made me start thinking about what is hope and what is home and what is life and what is love.
So all these questions were raised. So, I think that will happen to those who read the book as well. Almost done. One of the things that caused my attention in your book is the idea of breakdown, and some might call it ecological or societal collapse, but different types of breakdown, which is a necessary step in nature's regeneration process, but is also necessary for us to live through as we exit this problematic modern world. And listeners will see here, or they'll read the word through, and we can go back to that when we talk, because the through word comes through a lot in the book and is, I think, really important to your thesis. So, to summarize, I would say that homing is a hoot. There are funny moments.
It's quite moving, but it's also very sobering. And I am happy that it's connected to the realities as I see them. And I think you have sort of made a point of expressing what is really going on and what we can do about it. And what I think you're doing is you're helping us to batten down the hatches and get ready for storms that are already here. And I know you've experienced it this week with floodings and in your property in Chelsea, Quebec, and the disappearance of some land. So that is very visceral, I'm sure, for you to have written a book about these things and to have experienced it.
And so that's something that we can talk about. And almost done. There was something on page 171 that I really liked. Believing in myself as beneficial rather than harmful, provided a deep and unfamiliar freedom. I really like that, believing in myself as beneficial rather than harmful. And I think you're talking about your humanity there. So in a good literary critic language, this book is a valuable addition to ecological and climate crisis literature. And I do think it is.
I've read a lot of books. It's so deeply personal that we can literally feel your pains and joys and those of your families. And that's a nice experience for us as readers. But it's also a universal story that it can appeal to anyone, anywhere, I think. And I think it's a literary tour de force. And in the sense that you've been able to combine the explicit with the poetic in ways that are very compelling. And it's not really about you, even though it's your story.
It's about life. So I want to thank you and your family, because I know they're exposed in this, and I hope you'll write a sequel, you know, when you're ready, like, what's next? Where does this go? You know? Because it's like the beginning of the beginning of your story. So from my home here on the unceded Algonquin Anishinaabe lands, also known as Ottawa, what do you think?
Alice Irene Whittaker
Wow, what a thoughtful review. And you said it was your first book review. It's my first book review I've ever received, which is very special. And thanks for putting so much thought into that and insight. And I think it really is the first time I've heard someone else's experience of it. And it's my first book, my debut book. There's something so beautiful and also strange about this thing that's been so personal and so intimate almost and deeply tied to myself that now doesn't belong to me anymore. And hearing other people's impressions is so interesting. And I made a lot of notes there with many things that struck me. And I feel like that when you mentioned the poetic and the practical, that was something I wrestled a lot with. And I think I, as a person, have both of those sides of me. And creating this book really started in the practical. I wanted to create a big idea book that had all of these practical ways of, okay, how do you build a home in a way that is in right relationship with the earth? And from the clothes you wear to the food you eat, everything that you're doing as a person, how do you do so in a way that's in rhythm with nature cycles? And I put maybe 2% in there that was personal, just enough to, you know, who is this person writing this book?
And then over many years working on it and through feedback I got from different, you know, literary people or, you know, this, all the steps of the process of getting a book made, it was like, this is actually a really different book than I ever. I didn't set out to write a memoir. I set out to write a, an idea book. But though I learned a lot about who I am and how the personal experience of this is shaping all of those practical aspects. And so it really did become more poetic and more personal through writing it. And I think that's the book it was always meant to be. And I feel like it's easy, you know, I'm a communicator often, but it's easy to not hide, but it's easy to, you know, put up all of these things around policy and statistics and actions, but it's not actually spoken about that much.
The real human experience of this. I think a lot of people right now are feeling terror or feeling deep grief, worry about climate, and might mention it in a joking way over dinner, like, oh, well, we'll see if we're all around in 20 years. And there's so much truth to that, to the pain people are feeling in the worry. And so in the end, I think, I hope that it's helpful to share my personal emotional experience of this, even though it's very vulnerable to do so.
Claude Schryer
Well, I invite you to comment on other things I said, but I think it's very personal because there's birthing stories and there are things that are very intimate, you know, that we don't share, including vulnerabilities as a young person, you know, the mistakes we made and the obsessions, just putting it all out there. And I think it's healing to admit the things that we are, you know, perfectionism is both a good and a bad thing. You know, it's not necessarily a judgment, but it can get in the way of getting things done.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Yes and in the way of, you know, humanity and a life well lived, I think. Yeah, maybe that's where, you know, write what you know. I know perfectionism. So that comes out a lot. That's something I think, too, that people are. You know, there's a lot of environmental information out there, but people feel ashamed that they're not doing it right or, you know, I'm not actually an environmentalist because I drive this car or I eat meat or I do this or I do that.
And I've tried to be candid in there that, you know, sometimes I've had times when I'm, you know, a vegetarian and I'm going to zero waste grocery stores. And other times, you know, we're driving in our minivan to Costco to get, you know, food, and it comes in plastic packaging. And that's part of being a human. I mean, there you can do things to an extent, but that's part of being a human in the systems that we have. And so I've tried to be open about all of those realities as well.
Claude Schryer
Well, maybe we'll go through your list of comments, and I have a few more questions after that.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Well, I also, I liked how you mentioned, you know, there are a couple of, you know, things that you knew and things that you didn't know in terms of practices. And I think that's something that people will learn a new, something new about an environmentally friendly practice. And it's not a very deep, it's not like a really deep dive into renewable energy or anything like that. It's more a web of all of these different things that people are doing. And so on my quest to learn more about, okay, how should I be a human being right now in a way that feels like I am beneficial and I am good. And I spoke to dozens of people, as you know, from reading it that shared with me what they're doing. And so I learned a lot along the way about, oh, wow, this is, you know, for one person, it looks like the way they're farming and growing food, and for another person, it's the art they're making.
And we all have these different offerings right now at this time. And so I'm hopeful that people will learn, you know, like, oh, I already, you know, I knew about buy nothing groups. I didn't know about sustainable fashion in this depth. And so that's a my journey, too. I learned a lot along the way. And like you said, the word faltering. I like that.
Claude Schryer
Well, in examples, you talk about trips you've done in conferences, and we all do that. We go to events that we're interested in. And I think that kind of learning through being present in conversations and feeling the energy also of people who are committed to, say, sustainable fashion and the dilemmas that they face, you know, trying to make a living while being, doing the right thing. We think we all, and you talked about your economic woes over the years, you know, and how are we going to afford this house and where are we going to live and what are we going to eat tomorrow, right. Which a lot of artists deal with. Right.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Yes.
Claude Schryer
So I appreciate that approach as opposed to just sort of dry theoretical or to do book where you say, well, these are the things that you can do which are valuable, but you kind of weaved in your experience as a person and as a family to make these things more real because you did it and you faltered and you floundered and you excelled in housing and education. And like all of us, you struggled with COVID and what did you do? You know, I find that interesting to have as an example of the kind of openness we can have with each other. You know, this is where I'm at. Like, we're planning to fly to India next year and I'm struggling with the carbon footprint. I've probably done more than my share in terms of compensating for. But does that get me off the hook? I don't think so.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Right.
Claude Schryer
So, you know, you just have to have that awareness be a positive force. How does it make you help you make decisions? And then reading your book helped me understand how the decisions you might made and why and the pleasure you get from recycling and the social connections with people in your community around sharing the tool sharing story. All those kinds of things are kind of inspiring to how we can live. Well, even better with less.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Right. Well, and when you mention, are you on the hook? I spend a lot of time figuring out, is there a hook? Should we be feeling terribly and punishing ourselves? And. And that's not to say that we can't be accountable or that we can't do our best, because I firmly believe we need to do everything we can. But just that feeling like the guilt and the shame and, oh, I did this. Like I've let go of that a lot. I used to feel that a lot and I don't have anymore in the same way. And I see myself more as a human who's experiencing this and part of it and searching and less of a culprit, I suppose.
Claude Schryer
And then there's the Naomi Klein quote, which is wonderful because she reminds us that we're caught in a system that is destructive and that we are, as humans are, not naturally destructive. We're actually naturally cooperative and usually work within boundaries or we have in the past until we got into this mad system of capitalism and growth, endless growth, and the things that we are struggling to get out of, but we will get out of because they. Or else we will all disappear.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Right? Right. Yes, that's exactly. And what will our movement look like? And I don't mean just the narrow environmental movement, but the whole human movement during climate change and the breakdown of nature. How does it serve us if the bulk of people who are not making these huge, terrible decisions that the most powerful are making, if that we all feel badly and are either feeling righteous or feeling embarrassed or guilty or I shouldn't try anyways, because I like meat. And I'm not going to give it up. And so I'm already doing badly. I don't think it serves the ultimate project of environmental stewardship if most people are feeling badly and if the people who care the most are feeling badly, too and getting more and more demoralized. So I've let go of a lot of the guilt while still trying to do what I can, but I feel less like it's my fault now.
Claude Schryer
Well, good for you, because it isn't your fault and you've done more than your share. But when you write a book, you kind of put yourself out there and there will be critiques of whatever people don't like. But I found it to be as artistic as it is activist, which is a space I like because I like both of those things. I think action is important and I think reflection and poetry and aesthetics, the beauty, the way you describe nature is just so wonderful.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Thank you.
Claude Schryer
It just, you want to be there.
Alice Irene Whittaker
It means a lot.
Claude Schryer
You want to be there, you know?
Alice Irene Whittaker
Yeah.
Claude Schryer
So what else you got on your list?
Alice Irene Whittaker
I have three more things. One was you mentioned through coming up a lot and motherhood is in there a lot. And that was one of the big learnings from childbirth that continually comes up for me, which is like the only way is through. Like there's no sidestepping it. There comes a point. And you, you know, you think about it for a long time, when will it be? How will it be? And you don't know any of that, but you do know you will need to go through it. And childbirth taught me that a lot. And so maybe that's why that comes up so much is because the years covered in the book are years in which I was having babies and raising babies, young children. And through is very much a part of that. And I think I'm proud of that childbirth wisdom that came through that and that I haven't read a lot of books by young mothers, not that I'm that young necessarily, but mothers of young children. I think it's a time when you're so needed and so occupied by raising children that there aren't tons of books of that time or of that experience.
And so that was something that I originally didn't set out to write but needed to come out in the story. So I think that's what the through is all about. And the other piece was around, oh, I know we'll get to this, but home, when home is eroding and I've written that many times in, like, if I'm writing something for social media or the, you know, contributing to the copy on the book and that kind of thing. As I've said, that, like, how do you, which is one of the central questions of the book is how do you create home, cultivate home when home is eroding, home being our larger planetary home. And home is about safety and finding the place where you feel most like yourself. And how does that change when you can't trust the planet, that for a long time people have been able to trust that it will largely maybe be what they from your birth to your death, that it would largely be the same. And we don't live in that time.
We are seeing so much change. So that is one of the questions I ask, is how do you cultivate home when it's eroding? And then, as you mentioned, I had a lot of flooding this week and literally saw huge, huge parts of my, the land on which I get to live erode, literally. And so I've written that in this way, and now it's so literal in my life this week and so felt in a different way. So it's just interesting seeing those words that I've written come to life in a different way right now. And it makes the question even more urgent for me is, yeah, what is home right now? And then the last thing was just around animals.
Animals, for me, not so much a response to what you said, but I think the poetry of writing about nature is that animals are very much about this in the story, especially animals that find home and look for home and go to great lengths to find home. So they travel, you know, birds traveling continents, because they want to raise their babies where they want to raise their babies. So I took a lot of inspiration from the beauty and poetry of the animals that I meet in the woods where I live. So whether it's turtles or birds, they're very much a part of the story and have been teachers along the story as well.
Claude Schryer
And I guess I'm unclear if you've concluded about what is home or are you just putting it out there, right?
Alice Irene Whittaker
I think I've concluded that we are home like human beings. And home is we make home, we cultivate it. We add that meaning to places and that gravitating towards each other and to our humanity is going to be what helps us care for this home through all of the heartbreaking changes that we're going to see. And I think that goes back to us being beneficial and good is that we're a part of this home. We can't separate ourselves from it. And that's our life's work right now, is taking care of this home. And I write about, you know, when your mother is sick or, you know, someone beloved is sick in your life, you don't say, oh, is this going to work out?
Should I have hope? I don't know. Like, that's something that we often say, I think, when it comes to environmental decisions. Like, oh, should we do this anyways? Is it going to make a difference? Can we, you know, how can we even lower these emissions? Like, what should we try? But if it's someone, someone beloved, like, our home is, you try anyways, because of all the love that you have and because it matters more than anything. And that's where I landed, really, in the end of this book, is taking care of this as the work of our lives, because it is home.
Claude Schryer
And home isn't necessarily your shelter. The physical structure, that's part of it. But it's a space. It's a set of relationships. Whatever you treasure, I guess. And some people treasure physical things more than others. But I did think a bit about home.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Yeah, no good. Well, I'll say on that, that, like, with this flooding that we saw and saw the road ripped into and a huge amount of land go away, is that our house is okay. The cabin where we live, which is, you know, we're so fortunate and we're safe, and so we're so fortunate in many regards. But insurance covers the house, right? Like, the walls and the structure. But part of why I'm so heartbroken by it is, to your point, it's what you treasure. And, like, I don't treasure the walls.
I treasure the tree that was lost, that I sat against for years and which has so much meaning for me or the. You know, there are parts of it that I treasure more. And why I chose to live there was because of those reasons. And so that part is gone.
And so that's. Yeah, that's what comes up for me when you mention, like, the house. You know, the home is not the house. It's a place. And I can really see with living in this place that I've just fallen in love with. It feels like a part of me, and I've only lived there for six years, but I love it more than any home I've ever encountered. And it feels like a part of me in a way that I had never known before. And so I cannot imagine when people for whom their home was stolen from them over thousands of years and whose identity and way of life was intimately tied to that home.
How it's like the greatest of tragedies and in ways that I can't fully understand, of course, but that is, yeah, that just, I feel that in new ways all the time how terrible that stealing of land has been.
Claude Schryer
And ironically, when we did the first interview, we went for a soundwalk in spaces that have now been transformed by ecological disaster, really, because that level of flooding is not normal. It's part of the accumulation of humidity in the air and part of the climate change consequences that we're facing around the world, flooding, fires and so on. And so I guess we preserved a little bit of the sounds of that space for eventual regeneration. Are you feeling, I mean, you talk a lot about regenerative agriculture. Are you feeling that your home can be regenerated or at least adapted to these new realities in ways that are. I know it's emotional for you.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Yeah, I think I will feel that way in the future. I do think I will feel that way. And I learn in even deeper ways about what that really means and that it can regenerate or rewild and that it will never be the same and that it will be out of human control in a lot of ways. And then the next thing will happen, and it'll change again. So, I do think I will get to that place. And I feel like right now I'm in a grieving place where it just feels so sad and sort of destabilizing, like just going to bed and your home being one thing and not just your home, others homes as well. And then you wake up and it's like changed in massive irrevocable ways.
So I feel destabilized and upset right now, but I imagine I will get there and maybe that'll be the, the sequel is the rebuilding from the ground up and, and doing so with, in a way that works with the new.
Claude Schryer
Realities and continuing to do the advocacy. You were director of ecology, Ottawa for a couple of years and you've done a lot of advocacy to mitigate and adapt to the effects of climate change in the region here. But there's only so much we can do. We can't control the waters. And yet we have a relationship. We are mostly water, right? So in a way, those waters that are angry, if you think of it that way, teaching us a lesson about some of the things that have been done to the climate by industrialization, so on.
And there's a sadness in there for all of us. And we need to live with that grief. We need to live with that echo grief that is talked about more and more, something to sit with and to be energized by in terms of how you want to live in the future. And you've done a lot of sharing, which I think is essentially or one of the essential messages of the book about sharing tools, sharing space, sharing knowledge, and living in a way that is not only cooperative, but literally being connected to others in ways that are vulnerable. Because your house, my house, we're all extremely vulnerable.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Yes. And we're all going to experience these losses in different ways at different times. And we will absolutely need the skill and emotional intelligence to help each other out through it and express it and face it instead of pretending it's not real. And I think that will become one of the essential skills. And that's the, you know, only bright side, perhaps, is after this happened on, you know, at one point, several of us neighbors were standing there and just watching, you know, the guardrail bent into pieces and the road starting to tear away and all of that and all just standing out there and, you know, couldn't hear each other because the water was so loud, but, like, you know, waving at each other and putting your hand on your heart and then texting each other, do you have food? Because we couldn't get in or out, so do you have food? And all the neighbors looking out for each other, and one of the neighbors sent a message that was really, like, you know, come here if you need.
I truly mean it, and it's not someone I see often, but, like, truly come stay here if you need a place to stay. And someday we're gonna ask for the same thing in return. Like, that's what, you know, that's our Friday night. We thought we were gonna watch a movie, and instead, it's, you know, people out, kind of like, it's very similar to Covid in those early days, right, where people are. You're feeling so much love for other people, and you're all in that experience together, and so that will be so important. And we won't be able to keep up with all of the rebuilding that's needed and the floods and the fires. Like, we're not set up to cope with it all.
So people looking out for each other in community is something I believe in a lot.
Claude Schryer
Well, in our previous conversation, we talked about the role of art in the ecological crisis, and we won't revisit that. I'll send people to that episode. But it strikes me that the next season. And you're also a podcaster. You do the receipt podcast. So we're kind of brothers and sisters in podcasting. My next season is going to be around art in times of crisis.
So this is a crisis in your life and your community. And so I'm thinking the stories that you told in your book, now, people haven't read it yet, but in your book and other books will come in handy in times like that. Songs with your children to calm them down. There's all kinds of ways that art help in difficult periods. Does anything come to mind when I talk about that?
Alice Irene Whittaker
It does. It makes me. One thing is it makes me want to talk with other people in my area and come together and express what people are feeling, because we are in no way alone. And I picture the same for people experiencing wildfires right now. How do you find each other and share that and remember what was lost almost in a funeral sort of way. What are the rituals that we'll need to mark lost spaces that mean a lot to us? So coming together is one and the other is. Yeah. How do I, with my kids, you know, create something out of this that helps us remember it?
I'm going to think on that because it, you know, it is a loss.
It is grief. Lots of people are dealing with that.
And how do you. Yeah. Put a ritual to that so that you can actually put that somewhere. Because I feel that in myself right now, wanting to talk about it. You know, someone stops by to take a look at it so they can, you know, file something for the municipality. And I want to tell them, like, what the tree meant to me, you know, and that's not what they're. They're there for, but I do feel that need to express it.
Claude Schryer
Well, we'll revisit this topic on our third conversation.
Alice Irene Whittaker
There you go.
Claude Schryer
Sometime in the future, maybe I'll be brighter about it.
Alice Irene Whittaker
I'll be like, we're regenerating, and I've learned so much through it, and maybe I'll be a cheerier guest.
Claude Schryer
Well, it's neither cheery or not cheery, because it's real. It's like the book itself. There are some really sad things in there, and there's some really joyful things. And it's the irony of life that we have all these simultaneous experiences and beauty and eventual death and passing, you know, things that I just. That's why I think the book is going to set a tone of openness and vulnerability and also your background as an artist as a dancer, as somebody who's embodied an art practice for many years. And how did that, how did that work out? You know, you talked about abandoning your dance because you broke your arm, you know, but the dancer continues to dance. It's true, doesn't she?
Alice Irene Whittaker
She does. I couldn't. I thought I'd have, you know, stopped and stepped away. But the dancer is strong, so.
Claude Schryer
Well, we could go on. We could go on. But let's continue with a kind of conventional ending of how can you get the book?
Alice Irene Whittaker
Yes. So my website, aliceirenewhittaker.ca, has links to get it. It should be at people's local bookstores, which is a great place to get it. Any of the big bookstores as well, like Indigo, Indigo chapters, it's there. And then through my publisher, freehand as well, they have it. But all the links to that are on my website so people can pick it up.
Claude Schryer
Well, my son has just arrived, who was the first guest of the season. Hi, Riel. Just plugging.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Nice to meet you.
Claude Schryer
Unplugging his show because he was the first guest on the season this year. And the book. And what happens at book launches? Like, will you speak and talk about it?
Alice Irene Whittaker
Exactly. So I'll do a short reading from the book at the launch events, and there'll be copies of the books there and mingling in community and people talking, getting a chance to ask questions about it. And I'm having one in Chelsea, one in Wakefield, and one in Ottawa. But I'll have others that I'm adding soon in other parts of the country, including Ontario and hopefully out west in Alberta and British Columbia. So more will be added as I go.
Claude Schryer
And my experience with book launches is that they're a celebration of achievement. The book exists, and of course, there's a team working with you, the editors, and you publish. All these people are celebrating this arrival as well.
Alice Irene Whittaker
It's a type of birth.
Claude Schryer
And then, and then people will like I did, you know, talk about it, and I hope that will be enriching for you and for all of us just to poke at it a little bit, you know, and say, well, you know, what about this topic? Or, hey, there's an additional organization because you can't know it. All right. But what you did was really helpful for me is quote a lot of books I have either read or intended to read and then connected them through quoting and sense making. So it saved me a lot of time.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Oh, good.
Claude Schryer
But I think there's real value in that for those, like, I'm retired and I have time to read a lot of things. And you're a fast reader, I think, because you read a lot. Busy life, but it's nice to be a connector of knowledge and of sensations and of whatever it is. That's what artists do. Right? So, I think your book was successful on that front.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Oh, thank you. I think that is a reflection of how my brain works, is very connective. And over the years that I was working on it, it's like one book would lead me to another, would lead me to another topic, and now I'm in someone's barn asking them questions about soil. And so I sort of followed the thread in this very meandering way. And so it won't be comprehensive. Like, if someone really wanted to learn about, like I say, like, renewable energy and the intricacies of it, it's not that. It's more how does a human being, to your point, make sense of all of this and decide how am I going to be with all of this information and all of these models of different ways to be right now?
Claude Schryer
And why don't you plug your podcast? Because it's on my top ten list on my a calm presence sub stack.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Wow. I'm flattered. Yeah. So reseed is about repairing our relationships with nature and each other. And it actually came, it was born out of the book, because I was working on the book and had these amazing conversations and interviews, and I'd often record them for myself, and I was like, why are these not. I need to be sharing these, you know? And in a book is such a long process.
It takes place over years, and a podcast was much more immediate, and I could touch and feel it and share it with people. And it was helpful for me, too, just learning what I really believe in and think and my voice through the podcast. So they're very interconnected in a lot of ways. And similarly on reseed, I speak with a whole host of people who are repairing their relationship with nature or living in regenerative ways that are born out of their geography and their interests and their privilege and what they like to do. So one person might be an artist, another a farmer, another an activist, all different people. And I've learned a lot from them, really grateful for them. So we have long, long in depth conversations that go from where they, you know, where their love of nature came from, if anywhere, if they had an experience as a child, all the way through to what they're working on, and all the way through to how their ancestors impacted their environmental journey.
Claude Schryer
We'll leave it at that. Thank you so much.
Alice Irene Whittaker
Thank you so much.